PARKINSON & WILKINSON 'Elimar Lofts'

Some time ago I (Les J. Parkinson) was in discussion with our Ed over joint articles on the Q & A theme from a few scribes of the BHW. My idea was that this format could produce some interesting answers from scribes who win races and also visit other winning lofts. The material started to come in and I asked the Ed when they were going to be published and he said that they would run the series over a few editions. I sat back in my chair and thought “A few editions” and then replied there are going to be approximately 100 A4 pages printed which I did not think he took much notice of at the time probably thinking that I was pulling his leg. Not the case when they started to arrive in the BHW offices when we discussed them further. The result being that the Ed decided to produce three articles as separate features and lump the others together which would help to reduce the length of time that the articles would be spread over. Now you know what and why the scribe’s articles came about here is my contribution. What I will say before you get into reading the answers given, they will not suit everyone but all answers will suit someone.

Please introduce yourself and tell us how you got started in the sport.
I (Les) had had or been around pigeons since the age of 7yrs but only started racing when I joined the Middlewich FC in 1969. My early days were spent with the pigeons in the loft on the farm where we lived and I would feed them with the chicken corn. After my grandfather passed away we moved into Crewe where I started obtaining pigeons from the buildings around Crewe Square and when I look back I think how silly we were climbing up onto the roofs and walking along the tops and into the other end of the row where you could get into the loft through a window you wouldn’t get me up there now, it looks pretty high when you look up. That didn’t last long because my Father brought some pigeon’s from a farm where one of my uncles’s worked. I got up one morning and found these pigeons in the old apple boxes stacked in the kitchen, there were three with a total of 20 pigeons that were all colour’s. At that age you do not stop think about them going when you let them out but fortunately for me a few did stop. The lofts of George Walton and his son were the first loft the I ever came into contact with and I suppose that there are still a few about who remember the old Pied Cock that they flew so well in the 60s. That has never changed, you still here of some pigeon that is related to a particular fancier. The son “Mush” would come home off nights and I would be waiting for him to let the pigeon’s out. I would stand on the gate watching the pigeons go round; it was a long time before I was let through the gate to sit on the seat and watch them in a bit better comfort. One day we were sitting there and he said “There are some young birds in the nest do you want them” straight away I said, “Yes please” with a big grin on my face. What I do remember him saying was that I should not tell his dad, I never understood that at the time but I did some time later when I became more involved in pigeon racing, times and attitudes don’t change that much. I then left home shortly after I school, I didn’t stay on any longer than necessary, and I wish I had but that’s a bit late now. The pigeon’s went at this time and I was away from them for the next four years before moving to Middlewich when I was 19yrs. I didn’t start straight away but it was not long after I had been watching the pigeons of Harry Sproston flying just down the road. I moved houses several time’s in those early day’s in Middlewich before eventually settling down to race pigeons with Elizabeth in 1979, we have raced together ever since as Parkinson & Wilkinson.

With your pigeon work do you have a silent partner i.e. wife, partner or friend, if so what part do they play?
Elizabeth is a great help and will take the pigeons training or help out wherever needed, in fact when it comes to my duties with the NWCC the whole family step in and help out as they do with the auctions. Help like I get from Elizabeth and the family is not very often seen and it is appreciated.

Do you consider there to be any advantage having a racing partnership?
The more help that you can get and the more you work together the easier it becomes. Going back a few years Elizabeth would go as far as scrubbing the lofts out and would clean out on a regular basis but the dust affects her more then ever so I do not allow here to scrape out, that is unless it is absolutely necessary. However Elizabeth does do a lot of other things that allow me a bit more time with the pigeons and that includes the occasional training so that I can get something else done. If you have a partner in racing pigeons and you split the work and do the jobs then you are onto a winner, the problem is always going to be getting it all together, many hands make light work.

To term a phrase are you a professional pigeon fancier and do your circumstances make a big difference?
I would like to be a professional pigeon fancier but to do that I would have to look after the pigeons more than I do, there is always something else to do. Most of the things we do are revolved around the pigeons such as the secretarial work for the NWCC or writing for the papers. Going out on loft visits, which may take us away for a few days, at these times we are not with the pigeons and a professional would not do that. I would say that that during any one week I spend at least three full days each week on the computer, then at least three quarters of another day on the phone, that may seem a lot to some, all you need to do is ask the people who try top get hold of us. During the season when we need time with the pigeons I can spend two days on the NWCC with results or reports. Take everything into account and there is little time to be a professional pigeon fancier, how nice it would be. What I will add is that all these jobs take me into an area that I like and that is meeting fanciers and talking about pigeons, a bit highly strung at times, as Ron will tell you but about pigeons. In a nutshell I do far too much running around after other people to be a professional.

Are there any points that you disagree on and if so how do you compromise a situation where there is a different viewpoint?
I talk to Elizabeth considerably about the pigeons and even though she thinks that I am not listening or I do something else she is wrong because these conversations do bring out some good ideas. Ideas that cause slight changes here and there but at the end of the day I do make the final decision for my own reasons but without sitting and talking they would not have been raised. Also when we go out on loft visits she misses nothing and we will talk about what we have seen on the way home, these conversations also help to compile the articles.

Do each of you have an area within the partnership where responsibilities take control regarding a decision?
We very often talk about the pigeons but the final decisions are made by me (Les), even so I do listen to a lot that Elizabeth has to say because when we are talking to fanciers and Elizabeth is on the fringe she does remember things that I forget. If we had the room for other lofts I would let Elizabeth race a team on her own because she would be more committed than me to that team. I keep going off to do other jobs when I should be with the pigeons.

Give the readers the most memorable results that you have achieved flying as a partnership and flying on your own?
Results come and go and most people could go back and find some to add and add more but the highlights will always be remember are. A pigeon we called “Elimar Joe 90” was a real good pigeon in the 80’s then 45th Open Pau NFC and then the following year 176th open with “Elimar Duke” he along with “Elimar True Grit” will always be remembered because they were real good pigeons. The later was a late bred and the following year went to Rennes then onto Angouleme twice with the Middlewich FC before going to Bordeaux with the NFC to finish 5th sec 265th Open NFC. He then went to Pau for the next few years and was re-register before he finished racing. We were 1st section L Nantes and 6th & 19th sec 131st & 440th Open Saintes in the NFC 2003 from our three entries when there were some big team’s out. However the most pleasing thing that we have come across in regards to our racing was seeing a piece in the “Roads to Rome” book by the Ed and I am not including it for that reason. The piece in question was under “Multiple Performers” on Pau Top Ten’s and printed as follows. “Parkinson & Wilkinson’s 3rd section 139th open 1993 subsequently 67th section NFC Saintes 1993 & 45th section NFC Pau 1994. Previously 5th section 265th open NFC Bordeaux 1991”. This was in the company of some of the top names on the National scene in the North West and that always has to be the aim.

Is there anything that you have not won in the sport that you would like to achieve?
Apart from winning the National FC Blue Ribbon race nothing, I always like to see them come from the races on the channel, this is where pigeon racing comes into it’s own when you get to the 400ml plus races. You must always have your sights set on something or what is the point in racing pigeons in the first place. I know it is supposed to be a hobby but even as such you still need to aim for something.

What organisations do you race with?
Our main weekly club is the Middlewich Flying Club and we are also members of the Middlewich 2Bird, NFC, North West Classic Club and the BBC. The main aim in any of the clubs that we compete in for years have been channel events where good pigeons shine through with more experience, skill and knowledge that are required to get the pigeons home. The most competitive club used to be the Middlewich FC that would send in excess of 400 birds some weeks, however as with most clubs those figures have dropped considerably since the 2000 season. The club competes with the Mid Cheshire Fed who now also has the same problem with a drop in birdage. We joined the BBC for the 2001 season and that was because of the 800ml plus race from Palamos, this would be a challenge and it is the thought of being able to condition and get a bird from that type of distance.

Do you hold any official position and if so do you take an active part, if no what are your reasons?
That has been part of our problem racing the birds because we have for all but one year held positions that have taken up a considerable amount of our time. We have held the secretary's position from club to combine level. Plus writing articles for the magazines, Auctions, Private Treaty Sales, Agents for products which all take up time, President of the Mid Cheshire and we always help out down at the club. At the present moment I am secretary for the North West Classic Club and took early retirement at the end of January 2000 we had hoped to spend more time with the pigeons but that is not happening. I enjoy the jobs I do but being in that position does have its drawbacks, which I am not going to go into. What I will say is that there are far too many people out there who could do jobs but are far too lazy and this reflects on their own pigeons.

What are your lofts made of and how big are they.
The easiest to answer is likes and dislikes because for a start we do not have sufficient room and are limited to 24ft for the complete race team old and young. Because we want to race in the bigger races we find it very hard at times but unless we over face the garden with lofts we are struggling to compete in all the races that we would like to. We are reasonably happy with the race loft with the pan tiled roof and ventilation at the bottom of the loft on the front. All doors are sliding but the young bird loft has a second wire door which is left open more or less all the time. The stock lofts are in a narrow gap down the side of the house because of our limited room in the back garden itself. There are three 8ft sections in the race loft, two with 12 boxes in each these are white melamine boxes with grills over cardboard while the other is for the young bird team.

Do you attach any importance to having a tiled roof on a loft, if so are there any benefits.
Yes because this allows a better flow of ventilation through the lofts via the space above your headroom height. You can also have clear tiles so that the sun can gain a further place of access into the loft; we do not have these at the moment but are looking at them for next season. The main reason being that due to how the garden is set out plus not offending the neighbours we can only face the loft to the East and after midday the sun does not get into the loft so a row of clear tiles could be set along the backside of the roof.

Do you use any form of heating system in any of your lofts. Do you think it would be advantages for the birds?
No but if we had the room, lofts and the finances to do certain things with the lofts in the best interest of the pigeons we would and one of those things would be a heating system. This would not be to keep the pigeons nice and cosy or even when we are cleaning out in the cold winter months. I would like it to keep the humidity out of the air because that can cause no end of problems. When we were in Malta a fancier over there had floor heating in his office to stop the cold rising from the floor and he believes the same thing is an advantage to the pigeons. You would not think that they had a problem with the atmosphere but they do even though it is so hot.

How do you control ventilation in your lofts?
We have a pan tiled apex roof that allows a good circulation of air, there are also wire doors on each section that are left open all day long so there is plenty of fresh air always available. Fresh air means oxygen going into them all the time and there is nothing better than good clean oxygen going into their lung’s.

Do you have any grills fitted in the floor or in the boxes, are there any advantages to using them.
There are grills in all the nest boxes for the racers over cardboard, they also have a walnut block to stand one which doe’s not allow much access to any living organ. These blocks are also soaked in a strong disinfectant prior to the season starting. There are no grills on the floors in any loft and there are none fitted in the breeding lofts. I am not sure whether the grills in the boxes are a good idea because they look rather uncomfortable for the pigeons, with them being paired they cannot both sit on the block at the same time. if they are raced on widowhood then fine the cocks can sit on them with no problem.

What families of pigeons do you keep?
Our pigeons were mainly Dordins, which we have had more or less ever since I started racing at the start of the 70s as with all families they come and go and only the odd ones stayed in smaller numbers. That is the big problem with many modern day lofts where they see a new family come into favour and bring them straight in with bulk and destroy their own winning team. If you already have a winning family you should keep a good team of them while you try a new fancied strain of the day because once they are gone they take some getting back. We made the mistake with the Dordins and it has been hard work finding the right ones. The Dordins are Elizabeth's favourites and at the start of the 80's we went to "Regency Lofts" and had several powder Blues from there. We also went to Denis Follows and purchased from his team of stock and they blended well together, we have been back to Denis and have a good team of his pigeons at stock to go with those already established. We also have a couple of good Dordins from our friend Rodney Muspratt and in 1999 were 1st club 2nd fed 2nd Championship 9th Three Counties Combine Nantes over 7,000 birds with one that Rodney bred. These present day Dordins also come down from "Elimar Duke" who was 45th and 175th Open NFC Pau and these are the lines that produce the feathered legs, the sire was from Denis and the Dam from Regency Lofts. We also have a few Janssen’s that are based on the “Champion 50 Cock” of John Woodwards and are proven successful racers and breeders over the years, we also had a very good Janssen cock from Rodney but it was lost after topping the fed from a 25ml training toss. What I must say is that nearly every year we do bring in youngsters to try against our own which has been very successful over the years. If you are to maintain a standard within your loft you must always look to improve and not stand still. Our most recent introductions were brought in two years ago from Taveirne-Rigole of “Dream Breed Lofts” in Belgium, this is the first loft that we have been to in Belgium that we are happy with. When I say happy with I am referring to bringing in a near full team for breeding purposes. We now have at stock pigeons off the very best right through to International winners. They are all bred around National and International winners and with the intention being for channel racing we feel that this family coupled with the Dordins and a further introduction of DNA tested and guaranteed children off National winners are the way forward. We now have nearly 30 direct children of National winners at stock from a total of 30prs.

Easterly or Westerly do you set any stall by the position and if so why.
We have touched on this earlier and no matter how you look at it the wind will and do dictate the result whether in club or National racing. All you need to do is make a graph with the races and the wind direction and see where the bulk of the prizes go to, this applies to all types of racing up to about 350mls. When they get further down the road you will notice that the same fanciers do not win as much, they will win but as I say not as much.

BREEDING AND RACE PREPARATION/PLANNING

How do you go about bringing in a new family and what do you look for.
Because we are more interested in the longer races we look for pigeons bred round top class winners of over 400mls, they have to have the right breeding. If you select pigeons that are bred round the winners then you will get the winners sooner or later.

When you bring in that new family do you think that they need time to acclimatise, if so how long.
We bought the Taverine-Rigole pigeons in just over two years ago and in 2003 we have achieved some good results in the longer races at National level. The hen that was 1st section L Nantes is 50% T & R crossed with a hen bred by Rodney Muspratt. The hen that has won 1st Ace Pigeon sec B in the North West Classic is 100% T & R as is the cock that was 131st Open Saintes NFC. So they are starting to come and we feel that the best is yet to come.

When looking for new pigeons do you look for a particular family, one for specialist races or club races or just by name.
A name means nothing if you are looking for a good family, it is more a case of looking for the pigeons that are achieving the results that you are also aiming for. We are looking at the specialist races therefore we look at pigeons bred round National winners and not club winners, it is all in the breeding.

Which of the two sexes do you consider is the most important when it comes to breeding?
Yes fair enough you always need two to tango but I have always been of the impression that a good hen will put it into the young birds. You will still need to have a good match to breed winners, as long as try are sound and in good health you will breed a good young bird. We are all looking for the ultimate “Golden Pair” but they are few and far between and a blessing when you do drop on them. For this reason you need to breed at least 6 young birds off any one pair to test them.

Some fanciers like big hens for breeding does the size of the hen make any difference to the quality of youngsters that she breeds in your past experience.
A good big hen helps to put strength into the youngsters but no matter how big a hen or a cock is, if the constitution is right the youngster will be fine. They say size doesn’t matter, I think that depends on what you are talking about and to whom. We have been to many lofts over the years and seen some of the best breeder’s in the country and believe me they come in all shapes and sizes. I also think that because some fanciers set their standard they miss out with some hens that many would consider not suitable for breeding off.

When it comes to breeding do you line-breed or use a first cross or just pair winners to winners.
The best way to put strength into a pigeon is via the cross which is why the Busschaert’s have stayed the test of time. Whenever Georges Busschaert brought a pigeon into his loft it was then called a Busschaert no matter who had bred the pigeon, it was then bred into his own. Over the years the Busschaert family has been very successful and even today they are still in fact crosses because there are so many lines of them. With the Dordins that we have we are always looking at the performances of other fancier to bring in the odd pigeon and they are as good as a cross because the re-vitalise the strength in the pigeon. That you need are two inbred lines from the same family and cross them and you will produce winners, proving the lines are from a good winning loft to start with. We have visited many top lofts over the years and then seen those fanciers have sales with a named family but when we have compiled a loft report it is obvious that they have a cross. Nothing wrong with that if you want to maintain a winning family. The Dream Breed Lofts pigeons are mostly crosses but crosses of the highest quality because if you study the pedigree they are all bred around National and International winners and as they say, “The Apple does not fall far from the tree”.

Do you think that fanciers change for the sake of changing or do you think a loft can breed a winning team out and lose track of the winners.
A lot of fanciers change because they see a new name on the results but the problem is that there are many fanciers who start to win and then because of the sales they bring in more pigeons themselves from other lofts and they are not the same breeding. Just because someone else is winning with them it does not mean that you will, some fanciers will win with anything because they are prepared to work and if some put more work in with their own pigeons they would not need another family.

What method do you use to select your breeders.
Many fanciers say that the basket is the only way to sort pigeons out, that is not strictly true because some of the best stock pigeons have never been in a basket. Many potential top stock birds are lost because of that reasoning. However there are also many good pigeons that have raced well put to stock that have then turned out to be duffers in the stock loft. It does not matter how good a pigeon races, if the qualities are not there for breeding then you will do no good with the offspring on the road. What we have done is bred off such pigeons and selected stock birds from them which has proven very useful for many fanciers. Eye sign is also a favourite for selecting stock and is a subject that as previously mention is not taken seriously enough.

Did you find your best breeding pigeon by luck or judgment?
Luck comes into a Champion breeder more than judgment because you can buy the best bred pigeon in the world or the best racer in the world but it does not say that they are going to breed you winners. More often than not top breeders are dropped on by chance and to bring in the previous answer, if you buy the right pigeons that is close to the top winners then you are more likely to drop on that elusive breeder. There are some lofts that have that pair of Champion breeders and as soon as they have finished the lofts go down again, it has happened on many occasions.

What materials do you use for nesting.
Whatever the pigeon wants to collect. This obviously depends on whether they are stock or racers that have their freedom. We put straw and tobacco storks in the stock loft that has been treated. The racers will go wherever they want for nesting material but as they build their nest we do give the new materials that they collect a fine spray with FM30.

When do you pair your pigeons and why then.
For some reason we never have a set time to pair the birds, it just happens when we feel like it as long as the youngsters are away for the races that we want them for it does not matter. Many years ago we would pair up in early December and some of the locals would laugh, now many are doing it and we do not really bother. We have paired up a few on special mating's in late December but the racers are still not paired until we have a good reason, no two seasons are the same and variety makes the pigeons think a bit more. Because the preference is for channel racing the racers are usually left until much later, having said that they were paired up at the end of January in 1999 to rear two rounds off the racers for other people and still had a great channel season. The most important thing is that the pigeons are healthy and if they are they will not be bother by rearing a nest of young.

How many stock birds do you keep and do you breed off your race team also how many pigeons do you think that you need to breed off any individual stock pair each year to see if they are quality producers.
To get the best out of any stock pair you should breed and race at least 6 young birds each year otherwise you will never get the best out of them it is a very rare occasion where you will find all from a pair will prize. As I say unfortunately we do not have the luxury of being able to do that because of the limited space for the race loft. Plus I have always been of the opinion that you should bring in at least 10 young birds each year to try, this year we bought in 20 young birds from Taverine-Rigole in Belgium to race, from the 20 there are 14 left, I must point out that we only competed in three young bird races. As far as the racers go we have 24 boxes in the race loft but they are not very often full. We are quite happy with our present set up to be able to have about 40 pigeons to race with both cocks and hens. Stock birds are a different matter because as pointed out the stock loft is down the side of the house and because the room is there we have always had more stock than we should have in the first place and at the moment there are 30prs. We keep approximately 36 young birds for our own race team. If we were to compete in all the races that are available we would need at least twice as many as we have at the present moment, to compete competitively you need the pigeons. It's no good saying quality not quantity; you need the quantity to find the quality in the first place, which is why the big team fanciers are better off, the more you breed and the more you can race in the early years the better the chance of finding a champion. We don’t generally breed off the racers for ourselves with having a good team of stock birds they do most of the breeding. We do breed a few late breds from the pigeons that race well, these are usually sold unless we require an odd one for breeding purposes for whatever reason.

Do you have a special method to ensure you breed as many young birds from the best pairs.
With being limited we only have one nest off each pair. But to get the best out of any stock pair you need at least 3 nests to find out if they are going to be a producing pair. We have sold a nest of youngsters that have produced good pigeons but what we have bred have been useless, it’s a case of getting the right nest.

Please explain the method used from pairing up until the first race.
This was partly answered in the previous question, even so the main point is that you will not get the race team right until you have taken the youngsters out of the nest, they may appear to be right but they are net ready for racing. If you look around your club members early in the season the winners are generally those who have had the youngsters away and done some work when the pigeons are having nothing else taken out of them. We do like to have all the youngsters away at least two weeks before the first race so that the pigeons can be trained properly and given a fair chance. What you must remember is that you cannot expect pigeons to race and breed through a complete programme; they can only do one thing at a time and do it properly.

Do you move the hens with the young birds?
That all depends on the time of year because if they are reared early then a few extra days in the nest will not go amiss. Many years ago they were weaned as soon as the tail was about 1 inch long that is around 17/18 days but times change and we much prefer to leave them until they are about 26 days old. Those in the stock loft can be left even longer depending on how many young birds are ready to move at any given time and also if there are any already in the y/b loft. That covers when they are moved, the first part of the question concerning the hen’s well I would think the youngsters should be able to look after themselves from around 17 days and if not then they are not strong enough and unlikely to be a real top winner.

Do you breed off the top widowhood cocks after the racing has finished, do you breed late bred youngsters and what do you think of those later bred youngsters.
We did in 2003 by request but one fancier decided not to have any when the time had come for them to go which is something that does happen from time to time. This has turned out to be to our advantage because they are making into a good sample that could well be part of our future stock team. They are from the Dordins all others were collected as arranged. Would we always breed off them, I don’t know because if the pigeons have flown well and they are bred right you should not require any for your own lofts.

For every 50 pigeons that you breed realistically how many of them would win at 500mls, based on your past records.
With the pigeons that we have had in the past I would think that if you worked on 1% you would not be too far off the mark. However with the new stock that we have that are bred around this type of pigeon I would expect that percentage to increase. The other point is that the more room you have the more pigeons you can breed from any one pair so your chances of breeding them are increased. You could have a limited amount of space and only breed one pair of young off each pair in the loft but that is not a true reflection on what you really need to do. To get a good evaluation of a pair you would need at least six youngsters and then you would have a far better idea in the strength of pigeons that you are breeding.

RACING
How do you race your pigeons and how many.
All our racing is done on the natural because we like racing the hens and prefer to go for the longer Channel races where more competition at the highest level is available. We pointed out in the previous question about what is required to race in the Channel events and adding to that there is the point that there is always going to be more credit to winning the Channel events because there is far more competition with the Combines, National and specialist events. We used to have them on the open hole but they were continually destroying the plants in the garden so they are now let out for exercise and got in again before they start on the garden. Elizabeth likes here gardening so the pigeons have to be kept under more control. In the mid 80’s we did successfully race six cocks on the widowhood but they have been paired ever since. However we have discussed the easier widowhood system where there is less work required for the 2004 season but whether that will happen is another matter because the hens do fly well in the channel events. With a limited amount of room (see photo) you cannot be too choosy in the way you race and keep your pigeons. If the room were available we would race both systems and concentrate on certain pigeons for certain races, you can do a lot with space.

Do you compete in the National events, if not why not? Or are you happy to race in the club.
As I pointed out earlier we do race in the National races etc and enjoy doing so, this is a way to test your pigeons because they are not all just racing to one area. In National competition the pigeons have to think a bit more and need a bit more up top. Some pigeons will race forever at club level but when you move them into a different type of competition that fall down, not all pigeons will achieve good results when moved up a step from the club. Going back a few years to 2000 and prior the club arcing in Middlewich was good with birdage figures 350 to 450 but then the federation delegates voted for a 9am liberation and the club fell apart, fact not fiction. The change in time is not the only reason but it was a major influence on the fanciers in the club that has never picked up since

Do you ever think of competing for averages, if not why not?
When I first started racing the averages were the thing to go for in the club but in recent years fanciers do not set much stall by them. I cannot highlight this better than when we took to club racing for the 1999 and 2000 seasons winning average trophies. When I was talking to a fancier about winning them he said something to the effect of “Winning averages mean’s nothing”. Why that was said at that particular time is another matter but with the decline in membership since that time in most clubs it is probably correct. This same view is with club racing and not necessarily the bigger organisations where there is far more open competition. The North west classic are now compiling league tables on the winners and also “Ace Pigeons” and “Ace Fanciers” where any competing member will be able to asses their seasons racing with the club.

What is the farthest distance that you would train your old birds or young birds?
Training pigeons is a costly business therefore many take the easy way out and train with one of the local training systems but like most things in this sport that changes from year to year. We now train the pigeons ourselves depending on where we expect the birds to race and also the conditions at the time. If the weather is good and the pigeons are healthy we have given them a couple of tosses a day to get them right. What you must remember is that if your pigeons are going to be fit then they need the training. If I had the time and finance I would be training twice per day at around the 45ml mark for the sprint races but the working man has to limit what they spend on pigeons and the time to do it in. We have been to compile loft reports and fanciers have said that they do not train once the season has started but we have seen fanciers down the road on a daily basis and they have said that very same thing. Even widowhood cocks are far more competitive when they are trained. You do not see top class athletes winning races by sitting at home all day. In the past we have had the birds on the open hole, which suits us because they have been raced on the natural and with racing the longer races they are up and about very early in the morning and even later at night. However that has changed because they would eat most of the new plants that were planted so now they are exercised and back into the loft. To add to that we also train them at least twice each week from about 20mls, it used to be as much as 40mls but that has been reduced. If a pigeon is being prepared for a particular race then we do change slightly by giving them a few tosses in pairs. When it comes to exercising the young birds we call the old birds in but are not bothered if one or two decide to stay out and range with the youngsters. The young birds are generally trained at about 7am and 6pm during the season, which we like to stick to where possible. We are not interested if young birds perform or not because the young bird stage of their racing is for experience. Our best old birds have only been mediocre as youngsters and the cock that was 45th open Pau only had one training race as a baby.

Do you race your pigeons every week or do you prefer to condition them for a specific race.
Years ago for club racing yes there was no point in leaving them at home but nowadays they don’t get too many races as they are prepared as an alternative to sending them week in week out. If we were just club racing then I see no reason why a pigeon should not be able to go right through the programme to Nantes or if they are going to Niort leave them at home on the Nantes weekend. If the constitution of a pigeon is good then there is no reason why it should not more or less complete a club programme. Our own pigeons are now prepared for specific races and that is the way we prefer to do it, if they don’t come then the question has to be asked “Why not”. First of all you can take a good look at the pigeon on its return to see if there is any damage. Then if it is all right and handles well you can look at the preparation to see if something has not been done right and then of course the weather en-route after all anything can go wrong over a 500ml or so distance. One thing is for sure we make mistakes in life so why cant a pigeon, the next time you make sure that you have everything right and then if it does not come it has to go. No one can spend their time preparing a pigeon that is always going to let them down.

In your view do you think that a loft needs different pigeons for different distances?
This year we have brought in a few not so cheap pigeons to breed pigeons for the one-loft races and the many breeder/buyer races that are around the country. We like to breed pigeons for others to race and this is a good way of trying them out, we stopped giving too many pigeons away long ago because there were fanciers winning with them and saying nothing so we don’t do it anymore. Instead we are going to enter those races where there is something to be gained and hopefully pay the corn bill? Only joking the £18,000 a year pays that. It is always nice to see others win with the pigeons and we have found that if you put them into the breeder/buyer races fanciers do race them because they have something to gain. Going back to the question, I doubt if there are too many pigeons about that will win from the short to the long distance races. The thing is what do you call distance, is it up to 500mls or more than 500mls, if it is the first then they should complete the task but the later they need a different pigeon.

Is there any specific condition that your pigeons perform best at, or any particular time of the year?
With racing the natural you can try all ways and we have had them on everything from fresh eggs to big youngsters, what will suit one will not necessarily suit the next pigeon so you have to find the best way to the top for each pigeon. The time of the year we go for is from the end of May when the specialist races begin to get into full swing.

When do you let your widowers bath?
We have raced on the natural and they have probably not had as many baths as they should have done, a days rest every Sunday would be ideal. However in the winter months they do not see the bath very often because the pigeons do not generally go out of the loft.

Do you use any floor dressing or do you clean the pigeons out daily.
We like to keep the lofts clean and during the winter months they are cleaned out everyday unless a problem arises and we are not in a position to carry out the work. During the racing season they are treated differently and cleaned out twice per day. We have nothing against deep litter because there are many winning lofts on the system but I (Les) have pigeon lung and find that the birds must be kept as clean as possible. However there are times when my pigeon work stops me from cleaning out twice a day. The lofts are very often disinfected and have been gone through with a burner to keep any spread of infection to a minimum.

Do you like to have plenty of room for the pigeons?
Room is essential for happiness; no one likes to be on top of one another all the time so why should the pigeons be any different. In the mid 80’s when we flew the six widowhood cocks they had 16ft between them and they always appeared to be happy and they always wanted to be in the loft as soon as the door was opened. It has crossed my mind on several occasions about how crowded the lofts are in Malta and would they do any better if they carried far less pigeons. Even now we have more pigeons in the loft than we should have but like most other fanciers we don’t reduce the numbers.

How do you feed the cocks and what do you feed them on, a branded mix or do you buy separate corns and mix your own.
For many years we used Versele-Lage super widowhood all the year round and the only addition for the breeders will be a few additional peas with a touch of pellets. All our birds are given supplements because we believe that they all need to be healthy. Over the years we have tried most of the supplements on the market and are always trying something new that may appear, that is the only way that you will keep abreast of what is happening on the health front. In 1999 we used Comed and nothing else, then in 2000 we moved over to the new products on the scene from Interlabo. Where there is anything to do with pigeons you must keep an open mind if you are going to take your pigeons forward. However since we went on the Comed range our pigeons have never ailed and always appear to be in the best of health and that also applies to when we changed to the Interlabo range. Do not be fooled by winning fanciers who say they use nothing, we have met such fanciers but they prefer to keep what they are doing to themselves. To be honest there really are no secrets to winning with pigeons, it’s just common sense and hard work; anyone can win with pigeons if they try hard enough. We have previously stated that we use one brand and this season we are on the Interlabo range and are very pleased with them. We now use the full range as recommended by the Interlabo Company. If you are to keep your pigeons in perfect health then you must keep them on a regular system and not use any other at all. When a company produces a range of products they are perfected to work together and bringing in any other defeats the object of getting the best out of the pigeons. There are several good ranges about, you choose the one that you prefer and stick to it for that year, and you may find another product for another year so you must keep an open mind. The corn also changed for the 2003 season and we used the Gaby Vandenabeele mix plus the Breed and Wean of Bamfords and in fact we are getting them though the moult on the later. We also use Red Band every morning during the racing but mix it in with the corn out of season. We do not break them down at anytime of the year, we always give the best of everything. They need feeding just as well in winter as summer; pigeons need looking after 365 days of the year. It's surprising how many fanciers will have a good season and for no apparent reason will not be seen again on the prize list for a few years and they wonder why, it is generally down to the way they are being looked after. Any loft can have a good season but when it comes to keeping it up the birds need looking after all year round and they will respond year after year. What you will find is that when the birds are in good condition they will eat less and that is why they the old bird racers are fed in their own box. We also take care with certain pigeons because some will require that little bit more than others, not because they are greedy but because their body make up needs it. Another point is that Seed Company’s make mixtures for a reason and that is not so that a particular pigeon can eat maize alone, a balanced diet makes a difference.

Do you measure the amount that you give to each pigeon, or are they fed according to the individual pigeon.
We do like to feed them individually in their boxes and have done so many times but on the other hand we have also fed them in a communal hopper. The one point that I always consider is that when you feed them as individuals you can make sure that they will get a better mix of food and not just picking out what they want. It is also handy to tell you when they are in better condition because when they are right they will eat less. Some pigeons will eat far more than others, some are just plain greedy so fed as individuals is always going to be the better option.

Do you attach any importance to grits and minerals or can the pigeons get what they want they are out of the loft.

We use several types of grit and minerals in pots mainly because they are not allowed their freedom to pick around the garden anymore. The choice is there and they can have what they want, they obviously need something otherwise they would not touch them in the first place. Give them a choice it is not going to harm them.

Is there a way that your pigeons let you know when they are in form?
Over the years we have not done too bad picking up the pool money but if your loft is on form you do have a problem nominating a pigeon. In the mid 80's we had a pigeon called "Elimar Joe 90" and you could bank on him week after week to be your first pigeon. The problem was having one good pigeon was of no use because you certainly could not send him to all the races that you wanted to enter. "Elimar True Grit" was one of the best
pigeons anyone could own if you are interested in distance racing. He was 3rd section 139th Open Bordeaux then for the next 6yrs went to Pau and only let us down on one occasion. Now that cock was sent straight off the loft one year, he had neither been to a race or in a training toss and he was still on the result. The week prior to the Pau race for no apparent reason he would start to exercise on his own and would fly for literally hours on his own. Then on the Monday prior to basketing on the Tuesday he would spend most of the afternoon racing the skies on his own, he knew what the game was and told you that he was ready to send. I was told many years ago that what you need to do is, observe and the pigeons will tell you.

Do you have any secrets about what you do with your pigeons and how you get them right?
Many years ago we had several fanciers who used to call round and have a talk about pigeons and it always appeared that my whisky bottle was empty. Then one day the phone rang and this fancier said "What are you
doing tonight" "Why" I replied "I was thinking of coming over for a chat and a look at your eye slides" "I said you bring the whisky and make it a date". Sure enough at 8pm prompt up he rolled with his good lady and we had a good chat until the early hours about everything to do with the sport. Now going back to the point about secrets we do not really have any because those conversations are always open and if I am asked what I do I tell them. Elizabeth once said "Why do you tell other fanciers everything that you do" to which I replied "Because I am always looking to improve our own systems and when you get down to a conversation in depth we can all learn something" I once remember the late Denis Gleave call in one night when I was compiling an article on his excellent performances. We sat talking and making notes all night but I never learnt anything from him because when you asked the important question he would look at you and smile. Denis was one of the very best fanciers in the Country who could skirt around any question that you cared to ask. What we also do is look to improve and if we do pick up a good point and try it and it works our system will change. That is why when I have been talking to fanciers I tell them something and they ask a similar question some months later they might just get a slightly different answer, that is why, never stand still.

Do the pigeons need any special treatment on their return from the race to help them relax? Is any such treatment needed for the short or long distance races or the hard races compared to the easy races?
The old birds have electrolytes on their return from the race and then the following day a root based product called Herbapur to clean them out that is all they get. However with the change of products we shall change over to the Bifs equivalent for the 2004 season.

How many weeks do you think a pigeon can maintain its form on the widowhood system for both cocks and hens?
This all depends on the fancier and how observant they are, if they are looked after and kept for sprinting then they should last up to the first channel race which is about six races, if they cannot take that then their constitution does not sound too good. They then get a break and can by boosted up for a few more weeks to finish the season off; a widowhood cock racing into our area in Cheshire should be able to compete in all the club land races without a problem. You are always going to find it different and harder with natural pigeon because they are at different stages of sitting, driving or feeding where needed. With this in mind you can appreciate that you cannot keep them going for so long, there is always going to be some sort of interruption.

Does this include channel races or are the specified number of weeks for sprint races and do you think that a pigeon can be prepared at fortnightly intervals for the channel races.
Channel pigeons always need treating differently from the start and to get the best they need preparing for specific races. This is where you get the satisfaction in the longer races by preparing them for a job and they come good against top competition, whereas in the sprint races you can give them plenty of work whether around home or down the road and more often than not one of them will come from a team. Once they are right for the channel you can maybe get a couple of results from them at club level. but when it comes to specialist races there are not many pigeons that will give you more than one result at the top from a really good competitive channel race in the same season. I have seen pigeons fly really well for a few club channel races but when they are put into different competition that doesn’t shine as much.

If your race team went off form during the season what action would you take to restore their condition?
We always try to keep on top of them and make sure that this does not happen; after all they are only expected to work for so many weeks of the year. If they are prepared right from the word go them they should last for that period. I think that where they do go off form it is because they have been pushed too much while their owners are chasing club prizes. For those who go more for the National type races then they are prepared and if they are not on form for the required races then it is the owner’s fault and not a case of the birds going off form. Preparation is what pigeon racing is all about and not just sends to compete in a race that may be on that particular weekend.

What happens when you are racing either widowhood or the roundabout when you have a bad race and lose a few from one sex, how do you continue with those pigeons who have lost their mate.
We don’t have this problem racing the natural but we may in 2004 because we are thinking of racing on the widowhood. If the occasion arises we would have to look at using one of the stock hens or cocks, depending on which one is lost. There have been many races won with pigeons not having a mate at all so the circumstances at any given time will dictate what you do.

Is a favourable loft location the single biggest factor in sprint racing.
With land racing position matters because the wind dictates, which line the pigeons, are going to take when they are liberated. As far as the club racing is concerned you are generally within a comparatively small area and whoever lives on the back circle are always going to have the advantage. We were in discussion some time ago with Fred Hollinshead who pointed out where our pigeons came from into Middlewich for the inland races. That direction is out of the East to North East to our loft straight over Fred's own loft, when he was racing he very often saw them before we did and we still won the inland average two years in succession while concentrating on club racing. The point that Fred made was "How much must those birds have been in front to come and win from a North Easterly direction" and with our loft being short in the West in reality we quite honestly should not have won the inland average. Position does mean a lot in pigeon racing and that is a point you cannot get away from no matter which way you look at it. You can hear them talk about the reasons why so and so won the race but when it is their favour they do not see that they were at an advantage but more so that their birds were better on the day. What I must add is that there are a few good fanciers around who will win no matter what the position and that has been proven over the years in the Mid Cheshire Fed. If any fancier is not winning they tend to look for excuses and not the fact that their pigeons are not good enough in the hard fought modern day of racing pigeons. There are fanciers who have moved loft to win pigeon races and I think that if I had the backing to set up a racing loft to compete in the bigger races I would seriously consider moving to a different area where we could compete on level terms. Having said that it is still better getting results in the big races from a comparatively unfavourable position. There is a line set into Cheshire and that is the M6, no matter where in the Country you live there is always a line that the pigeons will take. In a tail wind they do get up a lot higher and therefore come on a more direct line but the problem then is that the pigeons need to be dropping down much earlier and how often do we hear, “The pigeon was like a spot in the sky and dropped like a stone”. Also with the tail wind they more than often come from the back because they have been going that fast by the time they realise where they are they have gone past. The comment was made by one of our longer fanciers was something like “The pigeons came from the back” the reply also something to the effect of “How do you think we go on when we are shorter flyers”. All in a days sport and a subject that could fill up a great deal of space because everyone has their own views, especially those in one of those good positions.

Do you treat pigeons differently with their preparation if they are to go to the bigger races whether National, Classic, Specialist club or open.
If we are preparing pigeons for the specialist type of races they will get plenty of private training and the odd race with the club and that will be that. They will not be flogged in race after race because that will take the edge off them; again it is a case of preparation and an end result of satisfaction. Pigeon racing is going more to specialist racing because of the decline in numbers at club level and this includes channel racing. Clubs would be far better not competing in the local clubs from channel events into the North West and staying on the land. This would help both parties buy giving more credit to the channel winners and less stress for the pigeons. I say stress because some fanciers will send pigeon’s week in week out to both land and channel races with the club and effectively make them sick of the basket. I was talking to a local fancier down at the local club about this and I pointed out that you win nothing in the channel races for a lot of effort. A few years ago he was one of the best channel racers in the area and the one to look for but due to circumstances the results have been more on the land in recent years. As long as we are covering ourselves in the bigger races that are all that matter, I pool to cover what I am doing and enjoy the results more than the winnings on the cheque. I have seen fanciers advertising that they have won so many thousand pounds in a season but it has cost them that much to send their big teams pooled all the way.

Do you think a pigeon has the capabilities of racing both short and long distance races? Also what distance can a pigeon actually still “RACE” as opposed to homing from any race point?
I set the questions and I wish I hadn’t at times because this is a hard one to answer. The distance a pigeon races home is increasing all the time because the actual racing that the pigeon does is governed by the owner and not by rules, improvement in other areas will be touched on later. The actual racing that a pigeon does has improved immensely since I first started racing pigeons because the fanciers themselves have more opportunity to prepare and keep them, the facilities have also improved. When I first started you were lucky to get one on the day from Nantes into the North West but if you don’t get one now you want to know what has gone wrong. I remember years ago talking to Denis Gleave and he said that if you give them 10hrs in the club then knock one hour off for the national racing. I now believe that the gap has closed and there is not much in them, the national pigeons will generally do a better time but not as much as in years gone by. The pigeons will even race from Pau into the North West given the right conditions but they don’t come along very often and Pau is 684mls to Middlewich. For that reason I think that everyone should be given the same chance in the NFC Blue Ribbon race through a mid day liberation and then they have a chance of racing home. The further down the road that they go the less chance there is of them racing home as compared to homing.

What proportion of you pigeons get better on subsequent trips to the long distance races and what do you call distance.
On the Pau race distance I do thin k that when a pigeon gets a bit of age and have been to the race point they do know what they are doing. Pigeons have more brains that they are at times given credit for and will pace themselves to get home which is why I believe that some pigeons come home near enough as fresh as when they went. I also feel that this is a contributing factor in a distance pigeon’s success. Birds successfully cover long distances year in year out with the better ones getting better as the years go by. Once they have been to the longer races it is not very often that you can bring them back to a sprint race and win, that is unless they come across a hard race where they have to work for a living. I have seen some good sprint pigeons that have never been sent across the channel because their owners are winning so much with them on land but given a chance many of these pigeons would cover a greater distance and win.

Which is the more difficult, establishing a team of sprinters or distance pigeons and why.
Sprinters are far easier because most pigeons given work will sprint and win but with the distance pigeons it is more a case of patience and time to build them up. They need to get experience and age to achieve top class results in the longer races and you do lose more because of the distance covered. In the vast majority of cases there are very few pigeons in any loft that will cover a distance race of 600mls plus. 500ml pigeons are becoming far easier to find because there are more and more being sent to such distances but after that obviously more and more are going to fail to return.

Sprinter or distance, there is no difference; it is all in the feeding.
Sprinter’s can quite easily be fed a light mix all the time and that will be suffice, they can also be fed heavily if they are worked hard and be successful. In 2003 we changed the way we fed the pigeons having moved onto the Vandenabeele mix and they still flew well in the longer races. If the pigeons are good enough and bred for the job they will come home on any feed.

If you could pass on one piece of advice or tip, at this point to fanciers old and young, what would it be?
Keep less pigeons and spend more time with them, give them a better love of home because that will bring them home faster that racing to a nest of egg’s or even the widowhood pigeons.

What problems do you think are most detrimental to race condition in modern day racing, both Old Bird and Young Bird?

No matter what happens you will get fanciers sending their birds when they have a problem, it is a fact and can be heard during many conversations with fanciers from different areas. The major problem being that many fanciers do not know that they have a problem with their pigeons. There are also fanciers who send when they knowingly have a problem in the loft, I had a phone call some time ago and the fancier was telling me that a member of his club admitted to having pigeon pox but still sent the birds and other fanciers ended up with the same problem. In the case of young bird racing the present problem being young bird sickness, again many do not know that they have it and send all the same. The health of the racing pigeon is always going to be a continuing problem because no matter what some fanciers will send to the races and you will not change them.

How far do you send your yearlings?
In 2002 we sent over half the yearlings to Nantes 412mls and they came well but in 2003 we had a terrible time with the yearlings from across the channel and lost more than we have ever done before. With the way that pigeon racing has changed yearlings should be able to compete at 400mls with ease. Even so they do need looking after because they are the future of your old bird team.

What races do your long distance candidates get before their chosen race?
The season we first clocked in from Pau to be 45th open our lofts were on the widowhood and the pigeons went more or less every week. But the following year they were on natural and we were 175th open but the pigeons were selectively raced and trained. The old pied cock was sent off the loft one year but was still on the result. If the pigeons are right they will do the job asked of them but everything must be taken into account including the wing because if there are gaps in the wing they will lose part of the force that sends them along. Most of all the pigeons for the likes of Pau 684mls to us need to be bred for the job.

Where and how do you house widow hens?
Again with racing natural not a problem but as we are thinking about racing widowhood in 2004 we are considering options and one is to have them on poles in a section where they cannot pair up. Doing this they can be exercised and prepared for the channel events. If the facilities were available they would be housed in individual boxes so that they would always be keen because it is the hen who more often than not brings cock home..

Can you tell the readers your routine for preparing pigeons for the longer races? Do you look forward to a channel race?
We have partly answered this question because we do look forward to the channel races but we can add to that because if you look after your pigeons all the year round and feed them well they will not need any preferential treatment for the longer races. We obviously do not send them week in week out but they still go to the races with the only exception in our loft being "Elimar True Grit" who did not have many races in his lifetime on land because it was a waste of his energy and our time. I was talking to Eric Limbourg on this subject of feeding for long distance races early in 1999 and he said "You English feed too much big stuff in your corn, beans are no good". That caused one of our changes when we went on Versele-Laga Super Widowhood. No matter how far the race is the pigeon must be physically and mentally fit if they are to win. The only thing we can add to that is there will always be the exception to the rule when the oddball pigeon that has not been prepared but just sent comes along and wins a race, which is more often than not because there has been something en route that has helped it along. Even winners do not stay here unless they have everything else to offer and I remember one young bird winner that we had in 1999 who won in a blow home but his body was all out of shape and that was the only time he was anywhere near the front of the queue and subsequently had to go.

YOUNG BIRDS
Young bird sickness is a problem; have you had this in your loft and if so what have you treated them with.
We were in Belgium talking to Dr Vandersanden several years ago and he told us that this problem would be a major headache in the UK and it is. We brought a natural product back with us and have followed his view’s ever since and not had a problem. We know a lot of people who have it and when you see pigeons in baskets, you can see that they are not right and if you say anything then people take the hump and storm off so you will always be onto a loser. The best way is for the old bird season to go back and let the young birds get through the end of July to the middle of August and then start racing. Communal training is also a bad idea because all you need is one fancier not recognising that they have a problem then everyone has it. Another thing that should be allowed is fanciers being able to use and pay for a basket on the transporter just for their own birds which is another way to stop anything spreading. The more that the pigeons mix the more likely you are to have problems; this is a reference to young birds who are far more vulnerable.

What do you think the sport should do to change things for the better, in relation to your points made a couple of questions ago.
Stop communal training especially from early June to mid August to stop the spread of young bird sickness and also put young bird racing back to the second week in August when the problem has mostly died down. Another way to help the sport is where possible fanciers pay for a race basket themselves instead of mixing them with other birds. Or why not pay between friends to save a bit of money where for the small senders.

Do you race your young birds, if so how many races, if not why, do you think they are better off in the longer events if they are only raced lightly.
Depending on the pigeons because if they are bred right for the distance a couple of races at around 100mls is sufficient but if they are being tested they will usually go to the coast 176mls. As we have previously stated young bird racing is not important because racing the old birds is a preference. Too many pigeons are ruined in the early stages of their life because fanciers push them that bit too far as babies and they never recover, then they blame the pigeons for what is their own fault. It is easier to race young birds by heavy training and keeping them on the corn tin but they lose part of their spirit and again do not very often perform as well later in life. The darkness system is another problem because there are not many youngsters flown on the systems that go on as yearlings to win. There will always be the exception to the rule and there are also those who race the system with a few and keep the best for later in life and keep it to themselves. However if the darkness young birds are cared for at the yearling stage they can come good again as 2yo's. Think of the future when racing young birds which is for one season only, the pigeons have many more years ahead of them.

Do you use any preventative medication?

If a pigeon goes ill do you try to put it right or does the bird have to go. These are points that we have talked about no end and have heard many fanciers discussing them. On medication we spent a few hours with Dr Vandersanden in Belgium going through all the points concerning medication and what you should give them. We were advised on what types of medication to use for each disease and we were both very impressed with what he had to say. It does not matter how clean you keep your lofts the problems arise when the birds go into the baskets and can quite easily pick up a problem. In the early part of 1999 we had an evening with Geert De Clerqe and Gijs Peters from Belgium, which was based on the Comed range of products. It was interesting to learn what and how differently they treated their birds. After that evening we again sat down and discussed what they had to say and compared that with the notes made from our trip to Dr Vandersanden. What we decided to do was treat them just before the racing season with Endo Ecto for body parasites and worms when they were receiving their yearly para jab. We then treat the pigeons in preparation for the races that they are required for as individuals, it does take time and does work and you are not overdosing all the pigeons all the time. However they are all treated for the usual problems after the season has finished to make sure that they were all healthy and not carrying anything from other pigeons in the baskets. A good product that we do use is FAM30 a farm disinfectant which was advised by a MAFF vet and also by the late Denis Gleave, not only do we fine spray the lofts but also wash down all paths as many as three times per week but also water the lawn and borders with it. Regarding the water we do change it twice each day during the summer months and even more if necessary. With regards to the addition products that we use the 1999 season saw a drastic change in the way we used these pigeon products and we went on to the complete Comed range. Through talking to fanciers who are already winning with Comed we came up with our own method, which we have supplied, to many fanciers who have successfully stuck to it. For personal reasons we then went onto the Interlabo range of products and found them easier to use and got better results in the longer races. How many athletes do you see winning without at least taking some kind of tonics/oils etc. you do not win at the highest levels of competition on everyday food and water. By the way I am not referring to banned substances but natural products, which do the pigeons no harm at all. Most companies make good products; it is always going to be a case of finding what suits you and sticking to it. The problem then arose that I was having trouble getting hold of the Interlabo products when I needed them so I looked around and moved onto the Bifs products that I find all right. Times change and you have to move on, who knows what we may use next year or the year after, we don’t stand still like so many do in the sport.

Earlier in the article we discussed the wind direction, do you consider that good pigeons will win in any position.
I remember the late Jack Garner having a good pigeon that won well in tail winds, and then there are pigeons that only win when the races are at a certain velocity. A win is a win no matter what the wind but we have seen off pigeons that have won because of the win and how it was achieved. When I first started and won a Mangotsfield race the late Roy Smith said, “Take no notice of the win it was a blow home” then on the Monday lunchtime the late George Stubbs said a similar thing and I will never forget that.

Some fanciers go out and purchase good quality winning pigeons but never appear to make the grade, why do you consider that this happens.
Mainly because they do not want to put any work into their pigeons, however there is always going to be the case that arises when the pigeons do not suit a winning fanciers method. We have to work on the basis of we cannot win them all, we never do but you can still go back to the piece about being patient and the cream will always rise to the top.

Do the pigeons need any special treatment on their return from the race to help them relax? Is any such treatment needed for the short or long distance races or the hard races compared to the easy races?
The only thing that they get is electrolytes in the water on their immediate return, then on a Sunday we use a root based product called Herbepur to wash their gut out in case they have picked anything up. This applies to all races whether short or long distance.

Do you use the darkness system for the young birds, if so for how long and do you think it affects them later in life.
A sore subject here because we used the darkness in 2002 for the first time and then in 2003 we lost nearly all the yearlings across the channel and that has never happened before. I must admit that if we had the room to keep a team on one side for the darkness and leave them to a few light races the following year then it would be ideal because they do look good when the longer races come along. There are a few who see the darkness as a way forward and have had no problems with it but I am hearing far more who are experiencing heavy losses the following year and are not going to use it as much in future years.

Are there any feeding methods for the young birds i.e. do you break them down, do you keep them hungry for control purposes, do you give them a trapping seed mix.
We don’t break any of the pigeons down at all, they are fed on good corn all the year round, keeping them hungry is not an option because that is no good at all for the races that we are looking to win at. I have handled pigeons that have been very thing an under nourished and unless they have a wind up their rear they win nothing and when it comes to the channel they go down. On the subject of trapping seed, yes we use it all the year round for the morning feed in the summer and with their mix in winter.

Do you attach any real importance to the pigeon’s wing i.e. back wing, end four flights and do you look at the wing to see if they have cast before a race. Any other comments on the wing.
Without the wing the pigeon is no good in the first place and therefore it is an important part of the pigeons ability to race home. However I have spoken to fanciers on numerous occasions and the answers vary from one to another, some like this and some like that. If the wing is right and the pigeon has the ability and brains in the first place then they are never going to be far away from the prize list. The more complete the wing the less power is lost so they are always going to be better the fuller the wing, what you cannot cater for is when the pigeons throw flights in the basket. I don’t look at the wing for the preparation races but I do like to think that they have the maximum there when they go to the channel events. If the wind is on their nose they need as much in the engine as possible so when you win in a tail wind and there are a few flights short don’t think that they make no difference to the pigeons performance.

If random drugs tests were carried out on your pigeons, would it reveal any substance, illegal or otherwise?
If they were someone must have planted them, we do use vitamins etc but that is it, my view is that if you use drugs you should not be in the sport and if found out kicked out. How can anyone feel satisfied if they use a drug-enhancing product, after all it is cheating, and as I put these notes together another British athlete has been accused. There is no credit in winning anything by using drugs, I am not saying that everything is won on corn and water because it isn’t, even the athletes use vitamins etc.

THE MOULT/WINTER

What criteria do you set down for the pigeons you winter with your thoughts on the following seasons racing and breeding?

As soon as the racing is finished they are carefully looked at any misfits have to go, then they need to get through a good moult before being looked at again. When cleaning out a keen eye is kept on them and anything suspicious is checked out and sorted straight away. We al carry pigeons that we should not, how many times have you looked at a pigeon and thought to yourself that it should go but then thought I’ll give it another try. There may be the odd one that comes good but it is not very often, your first views should always be the one that takes you forward, he who hesitates is lost.

Are there any special treatments that you give your birds once the season has finished what do you recommend the readers to do with the birds.
I have treated the birds in the past for such things as respiratory, cocci, canker, worms and body parasites but this was not done after the 2003 season. It was not left for any specific reason but more a case of one or two things being left through other commitments. One thing that I do is make sure that they have plenty of oil’s to help with their feather quality.

What were the last four things that you put in your drinking water, when and why and did you notice any benefits.
During the young bird season we used Vior as a preventative against the usual problems that the young birds have, it is a cider vinegar based product that does work. Another was “Adenok” for fungal infection, which causes a lot of problems with the pigeon’s gut. Cannot forget the electrolytes of course that are used on the Saturday on their return from the races. Most of the vitamins etc that are used are via the corn as a preference to water that you are not aware of how much each pigeon drinks therefore you never know if they have had their quota.

If you could only give your pigeons one supplement what would it be.
Probably Vior because it keeps the gut fresh and helps to stop the spread of pigeon related problems.

GENERAL
Irrespective of how your pigeons have flown, what are your views on the past season whether good or bad or the management of the sport in general.
We are happy having won some good prizes against the best in the country to National level where we were 1st section L Nantes Nat and 131st Open Saintes NFC. We have also topped the fed and had other good results in specialist races including “Ace Pigeon” in section B with the North west Classic Club competing from Nantes and Niort. On the management of the sport the highlight was the Dax International result after that there is little change.

Taking into account distance, which is more difficult racing to your area, is it; a case of a 600ml race is a 600ml race regardless of competition or route.
Not many can race from 600mls because they do not have the pigeons to do the job and many that have do not have the patience to build them up for a job, they lose them or dispose of them because they are not doing what is expected of them. The competition is irrelevant because no matter where you compete in a 600ml race the pigeon has still got to cover the distance. This distance is a long way so to win is never going to be easy and on top of that there are a few more lofts starting to move to the longer races because of the decline in membership.

Which fancier has had most influence on the way you race your pigeons?
Over the years we have visited many lofts and met many very good fanciers, each has their own views or ways with the birds and for that reason I would find it hard to point in any particular direction. I have had a great deal of help in the sport in varies areas that I am involved but with the actual racing I cannot pick out an individual. The problem with our racing is that you go out and see so many different ways of management and in the past I used to say to Elizabeth that such and such had a good idea and we would try it but no more. We could change far too much from one loft visit to another and therefore now leave each visit and stick to what we are doing. I am always prepared to learn but do not change as much as in previous years. If the question was “Help you” then yes I would say Ray Lunt because he ahs helped with several things that I am involved with in pigeon racing. There are a lot of names that I could mention but we could go on and on with that subject because we meet so many.

Which Champion pigeons over the years have left an impression on you and perhaps influenced your direction in the sport.
We had a pigeon called “Elimar Joe 90” who was always up amongst the prize winners and I remember one day a fancier said something to the effect of “That won’t win anything its got a hollow back” if I had four pigeons a year come along like him I could use the rest of the loft for my office and its only 24ft to start with. Another is “Elimar Duke” who was the first pigeon to bring tears to my eyes when he dropped from the Pau National to finish 45th Open 684mls. “Elimar True Grit” because he was a real pigeon who knew what the game was, a pigeon that you could send to the distance and be confident that he would be back in the loft. Then there was a Dark cock “2465” that we sent to Rennes with nearly all his nest flights in and he came good, one fancier said that he was going to pack up if he beat him, he didn’t pack up until years later. Outside of our own loft there were some good pigeons that came from the “Highview” Busschaert’s” that have produced some good National winners. The one that I remember most is “Highview Northern Pride” and sticking with the Busschaert family one of the best pigeon’s that I ever handled was “Pluto” who had everything. I mentioned the “Highview” pigeons because in the mid 80’s I had quite a bit to do with them and they stick in my mind. We have handled some really great pigeons in our time through loft visits and to pick any out would probably not be right because they have all won in their own right in their own type of competition. When you come to handle pigeons through compiling a loft report, they can be anything from multiple club winners to International winners or even the breeder’s themselves and they include “Young Artist” who is well known all over the world. I could not possibly comment on that pigeon because he was 19yrs old at the time but a great pigeon. Good pigeons come and go and there are always further Champions coming along however I do wonder how the Champions of the past would have competed against the modern day pigeons when the knowledge and facilities were not about as they are today.

Whenever I have visited a loft fanciers always look at the pigeon’s eye. Do you consider that the eye has any importance in (a) the breeding, (b) distance races (c) sprint races. (d) The pigeon’s health. Or do you steer clear of the subject and if so why.

That depends on the distance preferred and the family that you are breeding from. Each family has it's own little secrets and it is generally the originator who can tell you most about them. The Dordins that race so well across the channel are more often than not a good pearl-based eye with plenty of depth. The sire of "Elimar Duke" had a White Violet and no one liked the eye but he bred the distance pigeons, which were a richer eye than the sire but had the same base. Many of the land racers are in general a flat-eyed pigeon that when bred from need some strength putting into them but still re-produce the flat type of sprint eye. Channel pigeons have far more depth and are far more likely to win the eye sign shows. Eye sign is very controversial and most who condemn the subject have not studied it or are in fact fanciers who do not want any complications put into their hobby. That is fine but if you take that line you should not have a go at those who have spent time studying any subject within the sport. Remember it is through those who study anything that we do in life are the ones who take it forward. I was once talking to my doctor on this subject and he said that there are many problems with the human being that can be seen through the eye. Brian May was a fine example on that scene. What you do not see is a good pigeon with a bad eye whether in breeding or racing, what you do hear is a view from someone who has not studied the subject and therefore does not know that they are talking about in the first place and there are plenty of those wherever you go.

Who do you consider being the best fanciers in the Country and for what reasons.
Over the years we have been to many fanciers to compile loft reports and there have been some good ones at that, fanciers from all parts of the UK. I set my sights after seeing the magnificent performances of Geoff Kirkland in the National type races, he was the master and he is getting back to those National winning ways at his new address in Staffordshire. One of my favourites is Bobby Walton from the Midlands, always there, always competing and year after year always winning. The problem when looking at top fanciers is that you have to look at the area they live and the distances that they race, the position that they are in also comes into the equation. There are a lot of good fanciers about in their own right, there will also be winners and there will also be the losers who keep the winners at the top. We have a fancier in our own club, Bill Glynn who is a good fancier for other reasons, the main one being that no matter what he is always willing to help out and he can always cause a few laughs down at the club. You don’t have to be a big winner to be a good fancier, we are all in the sport together and we all need to do our bit to keep everything ticking along, the problem being that some don’t want to do anything and always have an excuse why not.

What do you think can be done to take the sport forward?
We need to move up a gear with administration, there are too many Regions with too many people on board the whole system needs streamlining. The sport needs to be publicised more and even a small charge to the members added so that the RPRA can afford it. We at the North West classic are moving into league tables and different award levels to involve more people, at the end of the season we will be able to press a button and print out all the statistics for our members. We also need to move forward with the clocking systems and accept the ETS instead of being left behind all the time we need to move back to being world leaders, instead of the sheep following all the time.

What percentage do you consider it takes to win with racing pigeons for Management and pigeons and why.
No matter what you say on this subject it will be wrong with someone because everyone has their own views and my views may upset some. When it come to the sprint races it is mostly down to the fancier because the work you put in will dictate whether you are going to win anything or not. If you want to win then you train, train and more train and they will win, work gets them fit and wanting to come home because they have been on the wing long enough. Middle distance it is 50/50 because the work needs putting in from the fancier’s point of view and the pigeon has to be good enough. The further you go the more dependent on the good pigeon you become, no matter how much work you put in the pigeon will not cover the distance if it is not there to start with. The good fancier will get the best out of any pigeon as long as the breeding is there in the first place, on this point I am referring to distance and not sprinting.

What past mistakes have you learnt from?
I don’t know about learnt from but overcrowding is always a mistake and many do it, the less that you keep in the loft the better which is why I think the widowhood system does so well. We used to send pigeon’s week in week out, empty the loft for the sake of trying to win a club prize but we don’t do that anymore. Trying to compete in too many races instead of a few selected ones that we now concentrate on. Putting all the birds on the darkness was a big mistake and one that will not happen again, pigeons are required for several seasons and not just one, a few cope but not many. One that I did make was moving back to racing more in the club in 99 & 2000 because the pigeons were not the same after that when we sent to the Nationals and 2003 was the first year they appeared to compete again.

Who or what motivates you to stay successful?
It is more a case of the love of pigeons and all that surrounds them; I love anything to do with pigeons (except the unnecessary hassle). I don’t need any motivation where pigeons are concerned and if I needed something to motivate me I think that I would call it a day. There have been a couple of occasions when something has been said to push me into doing something but no longer, relax and enjoy it.

What qualities do you think should be present in a so-called Ace fancier and at what level do you think he must have obtained success before he/she can be rightfully called an "Ace”?
An “Ace Fancier” needs to achieve success at a level past club racing, the award should go out into a bigger field where the competition is stronger and you are competing against a wider range of fanciers. You can have an “ACE Fancier” in a club for one year but to hold that position you would need to achieve such results over a period of time. the averages used to indicate who were the “ACE” fanciers of the day but they are not held in such high esteem in the modern days of racing pigeons.

Do you think winning fanciers should move on from club racing once they have reached a certain level of consistency? Are club performances paramount for personal satisfaction or sales purposes?
A decision that only the fancier concerned can answer but from my own point of view there has to be a satisfaction element that drives you forward to achieving greater things in the sport. You also need to improve your pigeons and the only way to do that is to go out into further competition and try them against the best available in any give competition. In club racing the competition is obviously reduced because a lot of fanciers now send their best pigeons to the specialist races and are prepared therefore they do not see a great deal of club races. As far as club racing is concerned there are a few fanciers about who are happy to send their pigeons whether they win or not but they are few and far between. “Club performances” are seen differently depending on whom you talk to, they are the mainstay of the sport but the competition is declining year after year. A certain amount of the decrease is due to what I have referred to in the previous paragraph and that is competing in other competition. Racing in local competition needs a considerable overhaul so that there are not so many small clubs and federations using more transporters than are required to get the birds to the races. Reduction in the number of clubs and feds would mean better competition all round.

You are a successful fancier, there are far too many leaving the sport, to encourage fanciers to either join or stay in the sport what do you think about limiting prizes to two per race per loft. If not Why. If yes, why.
We touched on limiting prizes earlier and that should be done more, if fanciers want to win more than why not join the big boys and let more share in the spoils and see less leave the sport. I have very often talked to Dave Healey on this subject and neither of us can understand why fanciers want to win a load of prizes at club level when there is effect very little to win. I have heard the arguments about racing with the National Flying Club and position, the NFC is the least affected club in the country by position, yes when it comes to the young bird races they cross nearer the South East corner an you are not going to get much near to them. But when it comes to the longer races then the prizes are spread more evenly, position will always dictate and for those who say it does not, I would like to see them race in some of the areas that fanciers put up with. They would still win but no-where near as much.

Is pigeon racing as a hobby going beyond the average working man? Is it becoming too technical and complicated or can you keep everything simple and still win with the pigeons.
Pigeon racing is now more professional than ever and there are a lot of fanciers about who have joined forces so that they can compete at all levels on a better basis and that is the way forward for many lofts. Not everyone can afford to race pigeons as they would like therefore partners are a benefit in their quest to reach the top. Yes you can still win with simplicity within the sport because pigeon racing is not really that hard as long as you are prepared to put the time and effort into the pigeons. “Is it becoming too technical” that is the same in all walks of life and there will always be those who can understand and do these jobs no matter what happens. I was talking to Elizabeth about the TV/Video/Sky/DVD and getting it right, she said “The grandchildren will sort it out” and that is the way we are going. Modernisation will always change the way we do things so we need to accept them and get on with it instead of being left behind.

What is your view on pigeon "moots" or "panels", are they over played and outdated and what do you think may bring as much or more interest to the quiet season when racing is not taking place?
We have been to panels and been on panels where you know that the fancier who is answering the question is working the audience and is not being totally truthful with the response to the question they have been asked. You can play to the audience and they think you are great but at the end of the day what is the point in that, if you go on a panel answer the question correctly as you are doing yourself whatever that may be and don’t fantasise for the sake of the audience. Panels are a bit outdated now but there are still enough people interested to make them worthwhile. We held an evening with Dave Allen a number of years ago at Middlewich and that was fine, it was a good night that those present enjoyed. We could do with a few more like that where a fancier talks to an audience for a couple of session’s, I know that there are probably not a lot who could do it but there are fanciers out there with the capabilities. Even prize presentations are not what they used to be, many are just a drink down at the pub and that is that, the days of taking your partner out in appreciation of what they have put up with all year have gone, pigeon men can and are very selfish at times.

What do you think about the vaccination programme for the pigeons and do you think it affects the pigeons long term.
I can understand the principle of protecting our pigeons with a dose when they are first weaned but to carry on year after year is a problem. I would have thought that by now the makers would have produced a product that would last the lifetime of a racing pigeon which is not that long. Even if the price went up to cover the cost of redevelopment it would be better if this then mean that we only need to do them once. One-shot vaccines have been developed for the human species so why not for the pigeons. This is one area that causes many problems for fanciers and they do believe that they are being ripped off with the present system. We have been using it for many years now and the losses are getting more and more, could this be down to the vaccination programme or just bad breeding.

What do you think of veterinarians in the UK and have you had any dealings with them.
A touchy question because over the years the vets have not known enough about the racing pigeons and I think most has been guesswork with them. At one time if you took a pigeon to the vet it was a case of Cocci but times are changing and the present day vets are more in touch with the problems that fanciers have with their pigeons. There is always going to be the comparison between the continental vets and those in the UK. The Belgium vets are at a distinct advantage because they have help from the University and pharmacist which does not happen the same here. What I do believe is the Governing bodies of our sport could help a great deal more than they are at the present moment.

How do you consider that the British sport is going compared to the continentals and do they have any ideas that you think would benefit the sport in the UK?
Yes no matter how you answer this one there are going to be those who are not going to be happy with the answer but I dare bet that more will agree with me. We appear to be at a stage where we are stuck in time on most issues, there are a few areas’ that are going forward but it is not down to the everyday fancier. However when those everyday fanciers see the end product they are more than pleased with what is being done. The minority in this country do appear to rule and that is something that we do need to change. If the truth was told it is only the minority who are kecking up against the ETS, the vast majority of fanciers that I talk to could not care less one way or another. The only point that does bother fanciers is where you see a loft taking the top ten or so positions in the local club’s, fanciers see them clocking even closer together but at the end of the day if you are beat then that is that no matter how many they clock. There are a few clubs in the Cheshire area where they have a 2 bird-clocking limit for club prizes, a good way of keeping fanciers in the sport. On the ideas side we at the North West Classic have been working with Sandy & Simon Brown from Mysoft to produce the perfect club programme and it is working well. The system is worked in similar ways to the continental’s and we can produce all kinds of statistics that cannot be produced on most systems that are available. We at the Classic are moving forward in the best interests of the sport and we have done this with the help of Bayer Flightpath who have sponsored the new programme. Between Bayer & Mysoft we are getting to a stage where the sport is moving forward in leaps and bounds, the committee have taken these steps and those members who have seen the system are more than pleased. The launching date for most of the major changes in the NWCC were set for the Blackpool Show when many members gather to pay their subs and can see what is going on. The Club are also moving into the web-site era where members will even have further information available at the click of a button. So to the question “Moving forward” yes it is where committee’s are prepared to change and look to the future, where fanciers are not prepared to move the sport will not go forward. Before finishing on this subject I will say that the biggest move forward in 2003 was the inclusion of the International to the NFC, a great job well done and it turned out even better with 1st & 2nd International for British fanciers, what more could you want.

What is your view on pigeon shows and showing?
In some areas showing is as competitive as racing and there is some good money to be won, we have shown and won well over the years but have not bothered too much in the last couple of years. There are show’s where you can win far more than in your local races which does not seem right but it is a true fact you can win £100 with the nom. I was talking to a fancier from down south and he was telling me that they could collect around £150 with the pools and in North Wales you can win even more. Showing helps to keep fanciers together in the winter months but whether it does the birds any good is another matter. We have a Blue hen that has won of 30 x 1sts in the show pen, we used to take her out several times a week in her younger days but she is now 11yrs and stays at home but she would still win even now, she is a perfect picture of heath and beauty. Elizabeth likes to show the pigeons but time has not always been available we are always planning to change that but for one reason or another it has not worked as we would like. On the judging side I have been to show’s where the judge takes far too long and when this happens I always feel that they are struggling to make a selection. This is not because there is a good class but more a case of instead of going in and making a selection they have walked around that much that they lose the plot. As anyone who has judged will tell you the more you look at them the more you lose sight of your initial aim. I once asked Jack bate “How did he judge them so quickly”, he replied “It should only take 20mins to judge any show”. After that I asked a few judges about their own views and some say that they judge and stay in the room for a while because those showing do not think that you have done a proper job if you do it quick. The fact of the matter is the longer you take and the more you walk round the more lost you become and the selections do not get any better. My motto is “Go in do the job and get out” instead of sitting there to pass time away to appease fanciers who want an excuse for another drink.

Do you read many magazines/Articles, if so which type of article do you find interesting and why.
I like to read articles on anything to do with racing pigeons but the problem is always time and I find myself sitting in the bathroom skipping through articles for what catches my eye. Nearly all scribes include them but I do think that the local club results take up far too much of the scribe’s notes. If we all leave these out then the winners are not happy, nearly all winners want their names in the papers to let the rest of the fancy what they have won. It would be more interesting if the local press officers gathered a bit more background on the winners and did a monthly report on who has won what, a bit of meat makes for better reading.

What aspect of the sport interests you the most?
Anything in pigeon racing can be of interest, except the agro. Meeting fanciers from other areas is great and we are more fortunate than most to be able to do it. I like writing and my secretarial duties that have been a bit more than I would want at times but when you get so deep into something fanciers expect it all the time. I do get into a bit of trouble at times for the amount of time that I spend on the phone and computer, in fact I would go as far as saying that someone working as a typist would have more breaks than I do during a day. As for the phone, well it’s a case of you have to talk top people because that is where I get nearly all my info.

Is there anything that you do not like about the sport, something that you feel needs changing for the good of the sport?
There is far too much aggravation in pigeon racing, you cannot please anyone at times and there are always those witting on the sidelines waiting to see something in print to have a go. What these people should be doing is writing something constructive to take the sport forward, yes but then they would have to be committed to doing something off their own back and that is very often not likely.

If you were to go into another fanciers loft and were given the opportunity to leave with a pair of pigeons how confident would you be that you had chosen the best pair, or in other words do you consider that you are a good judge of a pigeon.
Anyone good pigeon man or woman can go into a loft and pick out good pigeons they appear to shine but there are also some pigeons that do not look the part but are top class racers. I like anyone else could go into a loft and pick out a couple of pigeons to take home and breed winners but because they had not been paired together they had bred nothing. There is also another factor that comes into it, the best pigeon may have had an off year and been below par but then the following year come back with vengeance. It is the same when you go to a show, you could pick a pigeon that looks the part had is bred right but if the owner cannot race it in the first place then it is never going to get its place in the record books for that loft. All swings and roundabouts and what make pigeon racing so interesting, if there was no fascination in the sport there would be even less flying than there are now.

Is your loft as strong as it was 5yrs ago?
There is no doubt that it is stronger because the stock that we now have are on a far higher level and closer than ever to the National winners. We are always likely to have over 20 children off National winners in the loft at anyone time, it has dropped but built back up straight away. I know fanciers say about the cost of pigeons but if you buy the right ones between £300 and £800 then you should reproduce the winners providing they are what they say they are. For years we were messing about with pigeons several generations away from the winners but we don’t do that anyone. In the long run it is cheaper to buy quality and not a cheaper version of quantity, if you buy them right you can build a family that will last and a better chance of being rewarded.

Do you have any further comments about anything that we may have missed in any area of the sport.
I think that the powers that be are going to have to take the bull by the horns in order that the sport will be able to move forward. We are in a position where many are going stale and that could be part of the reason why so many are leaving the sport. You very often hear of clubs refusing potential flying members, if this happens then the fancier concerned should have the right to appeal and if the fanciers have no criminal record towards the sport then they should be allowed to race in the club from their own area. You could go on but that is a point where many get annoyed, the sport is shrinking so why refuse anyone. I also know from personal experience and through conversations with fellow fanciers that many clubs are being dictated to by the minority who bully others into voting their way, at times there is nothing democratic about meetings, thank goodness it doers not happen everywhere.