CURTISS,
WALL, LUNT & GREEN
talking to Les J. Parkinson
(part two)
Q.
How do you go about bringing in a new family and what do you look for?
A. When bringing in new stock we feel the most important thing is that
the loft we buy from is very consistent at winning top prizes. We do
our homework, find out how the loft is situated, weigh up the competition
they compete against and only then if we are satisfied we then learn
about the family of birds from the owners. We scour the result and breeding
books to find out which are the best lines. If the pigeons are nice
round bodied with good feather quality and have what we are looking
for we try to buy as many of the top racers as possible. Also their
parents because we like to try them as a family, this obviously must
be within a certain cost figure. We then pick the best from them over
the next two seasons and cull all the others this way we believe we
maintain the winning genes and this will create a highly competitive
winning loft. This new family will be tried during the 2000 season with
the few yearlings that we already have in the race loft.
Q.
Early in the article we discussed the wind direction, do you consider
that good pigeons will win in any position?
A.
Good pigeons win to despite you if they truly good pigeons, but make
no mistake we are not so naive to believe that they will win against
the wind every time if two fanciers of equal standing who have both
got good pigeons compete together, then the one in the best spot for
the wind will win more than loose . The mark of a good pigeon is the
one that wins out of turn consistently
Q.
Some fanciers go out and purchase good quality winning pigeons but never
appear to make the grade, why do you consider that this happens?
A.
The answer to this is varied because there can be many reasons, it can
be as we discussed earlier they may not have good circumstances in which
to manage his team. But then again it might be that they think because
they have bought good stock, success will automatically follow," huh
if only it were that easy eh". Many are guilty of this but as good fanciers
know it takes hard work and considerable dedication to get to the very
top, it is true that you will get there sooner or later and the path
will be made easier with quality stock. But it is never easy you must
work hard for it and then all of a sudden there is the answer. Then
again there is the distinct possibility that they may just not be good
enough because winning with pigeons is a skill many cannot master, because
it simply is not within their capabilities.. To become a top flyer you
must have a natural flair and affinity with your pigeons this we are
sure of and if you have not got it we don't think you will ever become
a successful fancier.
Q.
Do you give any special treatments when the pigeons return from the
race as a precaution against anything that they may have picked up in
the basket?
A.
The things we do when our birds return from racing is to give them electrolytes
in the water probably the same as most fanciers. But after a holdover
we always canker the pigeons for 3 days. We have also given Gambakoxoid
and Nifuramycin to the birds on return from racing but this was only
for youngsters. We no longer do this as we believe now, that if they
go down with anything Dusty Bin is the best cure. You can get carried
away with too many products, natural immunity and natural fitness gives
rise to better racing results, we are sure of this.
Q.
Which of the two sexes do you consider is the most important when it
comes to breeding?
A.
To us both sexes are equally important when it comes to breeding, the
better matches the pair are in terms of racing ability the more likely
you are to breed quality racing stock from them you must possess both
quality hens and quality cocks. Many say that hens are the backbone
of a successful stock loft. Maybe this is true, but they themselves
must be bred from quality cock in the first place.
Q.
Some fanciers like big hens for breeding does the size of the hen make
any difference to the quality of youngsters that she breeds in your
past experience?
A.
The size of the hens bares no difference in this ability of its youngsters
to race whatsoever providing of course the youngster is sound and bares
no obvious physical defects. The smallest hens can breed every bit as
good a youngster than a big hen.
Q.
Is there anything that you have not won in the sport that you would
like to achieve?
A.
Yes we would love to win the acknowledgement of the fanciers we compete
against in certain organisations instead of the back stabbing that we
get and silly rules brought out to try and stop us from competing.
Q.
Who do you consider to be the best fanciers in the Country and for what
reasons?
A.
We consider Mr & Mrs Litherland of Stoke to be one of the best fanciers
on the Country with the reasons being obvious. They have done it at
all levels, be it sprint or channel, fed or National their results can
only be admired, they have swapped their pigeons about and won with
them all. But the fanciers we admire most are all the ones who send
week in week out and who often don't get among the prizes but are never
the less there every week. They mark the birds strike the clocks, load
the transporter and read the clocks off on Saturday night without these
true fanciers there would be no pigeon racing in the first place. Without
true fanciers like these there would be no sport for any of us, how
many good fanciers would do the same if they stopped winning, no so
many we think. We never take fellow fanciers for granted because most
of our club members are the backbone of the sport and are true sportsman.
Q.
What do you think can be done to take the sport forward?
A.
This is a tricky issue anything and everything must move with the times
to survive and we are sad to say that pigeon racing in our country is
sadly lacking in forward thinking. We have too many old ideas that run
the very core of the sport. We all know there is very little youth coming
into the sport and we know it is largely because of the other attractions
they have such as computers and electronic games etc. But what is really
sad is when we do attract new blood into the sport, be it young or old,
so many of them last little more than a couple of years mainly because
they are pitched against the best fanciers right from the word. Realistically
they cant hope to compete so they soon loose heart maybe we should set
up league with fed and clubs to be run on a points basis with promotion
and relegation with each league flying for its own prize money. One
thing that always gets people heated is the use of wind up or toulet
clocks within today's racing we are of the opinion that all toulets
should be phased out over a certain period of time.
We know there are those out there who for personal reasons cannot afford
the new electronic type clocks so maybe it is time we used some of our
own money to subscribe the buying of new clocks money such as that raised
at Blackpool. That could also include the many fund raising events for
charity, this kind of money could promote the sport and bring pigeon
racing into the twentieth century. Another alarming thing is the amount
of good fanciers leaving the sport many because of the fact that his
fellow club members or fed members simply jump ship because they cannot
beat him and form new clubs/fed's and exclude the good fanciers from
joining. We feel strongly on this point, here are currant members not
the type we have to go looking for to join our sport, but the ones that
are already members and good competing ones at that and we let them
go because nobody helps them with their cause. It is our opinion that
the R P R A and its members should come up with a policy that you actually
apply to your region for membership and then inform you of you local
clubs and then your local club should be informed that they have a new
member.
It would be nice if all areas were to be categorised just as we section
the National Flying club and your post code or something should indicate
what area you fly with Then within those areas you have smaller sections
which would obviously be your fed. That way you could not drop out of
one to go to another or from one of your own , you simply fly in your
area against others in your area. The good things would be that the
main overall areas would be combines and all birds flying to the same
area would go up together creating less clashing and promoting bigger
birdage figures. This in turn making better pigeons as they would have
to think a lot more than they do when there is six to eight hundred
birds up all flying to the sane location that is a similar way the Dutch
fly their pigeons and it works. In Holland you may only fly with one
club in your area and if you want to join another one at the end of
the year you may do so but you must fly with that one all of the next
year. You cannot pick and choose weekly anyway we have probably opened
a can of worms but one thing is for sure if we keep going on doing nothing
we dread to think where the sport will be in 10year time
Q.
Are there any special treatments that you give your birds once the season
ha finished what do you recommend the readers to do with the birds?
A.
When our birds have stopped racing we lock them up until the following
year we give plenty of natural yoghurt through the moulting months and
good corn until the main body moult has finished. We don't mind them
getting a little podgy at this time of year but obviously not grossly
over weight. We bath them regularly and our aviary is our big asset,
at this time of year basically we let the birds rest and re charge their
batteries before the onslaught of the new season.
Q.
When it comes to breeding do you line-breed or use a first cross or
just pair winners to winners?
A.
When breeding we use line breeding for anything we want to take future
possible stock birds from and for racing we like to use a first cross
of our 2 inbred families. We will also inbreed our best lines with future
stock birds in mind. The widowhood lofts we like to pair 2 first class
fed winners together.
Q.
Do you breed off the top widowhood cocks after the racing has finished,
do you breed late bred youngsters and what do you think of those later
bred youngsters?
A.
We breed off all our widowhood that have topped the fed and there youngster
are treasured within our lofts. In the early years we only used to breed
from the stock birds but after a few seasons you need to start breeding
from your best flyers this is how you become established. Late youngsters
are bread every year some are sold and it is from these we will always
pick ourselves a couple of potential stock birds for the future.
Q.
If your race team went off form during the season what action would
you take to restore their condition?
A.
We would assess the situation and if it was a simple as just a loss
of form in the team and not anything more sinister like viruses etc
then we would rest them. We would feed them a light mix canker them
that week and start to exercise them gradually the following week and
form would be sure to return
Q.
Do you use the darkness system for the young birds, if so for how long
and do you think it affects them later in life?
A.
Yes we have used the darkness system for the last five years with our
youngsters our system is very similar to most other fanciers we start
them on it the 1st March. The youngsters have 9hrs of light per day
this goes on until the longest day of the year then the shutters are
left down for good. We do think it does affect the birds in later life
and if we were going to fly in the longer races with our old birds seriously
then we would not use the dark system at all. But generally it does
not effect them if you only fly the land programme.
Q.
Are there any feeding methods for the young birds i.e. do you break
them down, do you keep them hungry for control purposes, do you give
them a trapping seed mix?
A.
We feed our youngsters as much as they want, they are never starved
and we feed them twice per day. Every day of there lives they get a
young bird mix at every evening feed and the morning feed is mixed seed
and depuratives every day.
Q.
What is the farthest distance that you would train your old birds or
young birds?
A.
We train according to the distance we want to win at our sprinters are
kept short and our distance birds are trained from up to 80 miles we
know people who train their young birds and old birds from 40 miles
per day and achieve great results. We know others who train from 20
miles and achieve the same success, what works for one family of birds
does not mean it will work for another you must find that out for your
selves simply by trial and error.
Q.
How do you consider that the British sport is going compared to the
continentals and do they have any ideas that you think would benefit
the sport in the UK. ?
A.
We know for a fact that we are behind the times when you compare our
system of racing, pooling and distribution of prizes to that of the
Continentals and it gives us no pleasure to admit this. In Holland you
can race youngsters in May with old birds, they are in separate baskets
but are liberated together this goes on until Mid Summer. Then they
have what's called "Late tours" where you can race any age pigeons.
Again this in our opinion leads to better pigeons as you can have as
many as 30 races with the same pigeons if you so wished. This is after
all what we keep racing pigeons for. In our country most young bird
programmes are over 8 to 10 weeks. You can certainly enjoy your hobby
more on the continent. Their pooling system or prize distributions paid
out on percentages, for example if 10 birds go in a race they pay out
one prize, 20 birds 2 prizes, 30 birds 3 prizes and so on. So if you
get a race with 1,000 birds in it then they pay out 100 prizes, more
fanciers win prizes.
We have mentioned this before but the following is in our opinion something
our governing bodies must take on board. In Holland you can only fly
in one club, you cannot fly in 3 or 4 Saturday clubs, at the end of
the season. You can change clubs as can any other member but you must
remain in that club for the whole of the next season so there's no running
away. The governing body the N.P.O we think set the boundaries for feds
and combines, you cannot set up break away feds or Amals nilly willy
just because you cannot win. We believe that if our sport was run in
a similar fashion it would lead to healthier competition. Only as far
back as 6 seasons we could race against 3,000 to 3,500 birds per week
but now the organisation has split into at least three feds sending
around 1,000 each and each being dominated much easier than before by
one or two fanciers.
When you have larger amounts of birds competing together it is always
going to be harder for any one member to dominate no matter what location
they race too. Instead of wanting better and more competition most fanciers
in our country just want to make things smaller and easier and far less
competition. At the end of it we alone are the losers. Our pigeons are
not as educated as they could be and in many ways are nowhere near as
good as some fanciers would have you believe they are.
Q.
Do you attach any real importance to the pigeons wing i.e back wing,
end four flights and do you look at the wing to see if they have cast
before a race. Any other comments on the wing?
A.
We pay as much attention to wing as almost anything else in our lofts
after all it is the wings that brings them home on Saturdays all our
pigeons possess a short back wing and narrow flight we particularly
look to the end flights we like them well rounded and of even length
with good ventilation Whether they have cast or not dertermines when
they will hit peak form. So we like them to cast around May time if
a cock casts a flight just before we basketed him we would not be put
off in sending him
Q.
Do you use any form of heating system in any of your lofts. Do you think
it would be advantages for the birds?
A.
We use heating in our widowhood lofts it is an advantage when the weather
has been damp for a while also early in the season when the weather
is cold and the wind in the East we will turn on all the heaters its
advantage's for the cocks because they are not using up their energy
trying to keep warm and you can bring their form on
Q.
Do the pigeons need any special treatment on their return from the race
to help them relax?
A. Generally the only thing we do is to give them forced warm baths
if the race has been particularly hard if you look at them after you
do this they are all lay down relaxing which is a good thing
Q.
What importance do you put on yearlings for racing?
A.
For our type of racing our yearlings are very important to us. We think
there is nothing better than a young team , our yearlings are almost
always our best performers throughout the year. For instance last season
we topped the fed 11 times with old birds, 10 of these were with yearlings
and the pigeon that won 1st NWGN from Vire was also a yearling. But
when you get difficult races in North East winds then we find that the
more experienced 2 & 3yr olds come to the fore. But over a few seasons
your loft should become stronger and the yearlings within your team
should be more than holding their own or there could be trouble for
you in the future. Because after all your yearlings are for the future
and so should be winning from the start.
Q.
What is the main reason for your success, is it the pigeons or is it
more the fancier.
A.
A few years ago we would have said that sprint racing consisted of 70%
fancier 30% pigeons but in all honesty we know that this is not true.
Since we started racing our current family we have seen a huge difference
in the level of performance. We can say without fear of contradiction
that to win at the highest level and to be consistent at this then you
must have quality stock there is absolutely no substitute for it. For
instance we believe that if you are a good fancier with mediocre pigeons
and you are sprinting with these, then you should win and win well if
you were a real good fancier. But if you then came across some real
quality pigeons and raced them on the very same system then you would
most certainly win more and be more consistent. So taking all this into
account we have to say that if you are wanting to compete at the top
level and you want to be consistent at or near the top then the percentages
are most definitely 70% pigeon 30% fancier.
Q.
What do you think is the most important factor to motivate widowers?
A.
The first thing that you must have is contentment, your pigeons must
be happy within their own environment . meaning happy in their loft,
happy to have you in and around them or they will never race home in
front of the rest. If you have these things then you are already half
way to motivating your team every week. So the most important thing
to motivate your widowers in our opinion is contentment.
Q.
Do you ever get any sick birds and if so what do you do with them?
A.
We cannot remember any of our main race birds ever getting ill or sick
but with youngsters this is a different matter. Because you have asked
the question about sick birds as individuals and have not mentioned
YB sickness we will answer the question as if directed at our older
birds. We have had one or two stock birds go sick over the years and
we have identified the problem and isolated the bird concerned, treated
it with anti-biotics and put it back in the loft when it was well again.
They have gone on to breed fed winners after that but if we had a pigeon
that repeatedly got sick then we would dispose of it for sure.
Q.
Why do you think there are so many young bird losses these days, say
in comparison with 20yrs ago?
A.
This is a good question and one that could take a long time to answer
for various reasons but we shall try to answer it as short and directly
as we can. There are many factors that exist in our modern day society
that no doubt contribute to the losses that we incur with young birds.
But we think that some of the main reasons are brought about by the
fanciers themselves. For instance many years ago there was hardly any
so called "Studs" and in the past everybody raced whatever they kept
in their loft so consequently you soon found out the ones without the
brains. One thing in pigeon racing is absolutely certain "The basket
never lies" so we used to breed from pigeons that had been raced whether
cocks or hens. They were themselves bred from pigeons that raced and
so on down the line. If you race every pigeon in your loft over a full
season then only the ones with brains will be left at the end of the
year. Now what you must remember is that every pigeon can breed pigeons
that are no good but in the past fanciers tended to rear only a few
youngsters so less rubbish was produced. When that rubbish was raced
it was lost and that's why you only had a small percentage of losses.
However today's racing scene is much different, if you pick up your
weekly pigeon paper and read how many youngsters are for sale from such
and such a stud it's unbelievable. Now please do not get us wrong on
this subject we are not saying that all "Studs" are useless, that is
far from the case. The problem is that many of these studs travel over
to Belgium and Holland, find a loft full of #2van Something's" with
lovely looking eyes and the rest of it and buy a full round of 60-80ybs.
Now there will probably be some decent pigeons among them but one thing
is for sure there will be far more bad than good amongst them. The problem
is that the stud keeps them all in an aviary and when they moult out
they all look the same and consequently advertised as "Van Championees"
and then offers kits of youngsters for ex amount of pounds. Because
of the fancy paperwork that comes with them they are go straight into
the stock loft which means that we already have two generations of pigeons
being reared from what have never been tested on the road.
Now be honest with yourselves and look into your own racing loft and
count how many 3 & 4yr olds you have in your race team. Then look in
your loft books and see how many youngsters you raced that year and
you will find that if you have three of four good ones from every 40
bred then you have a good percentage. That's because the rubbish has
been through racing and culling or whatever. But on the other hand if
you bred the same amount and kept them in an aviary then you would have
the lot left, rubbish included. We all know that rubbish breeds rubbish
so if you keep everything that you breed and breed from them you will
breed a large percentage of rubbish and when you eventually race them
you will lose them. This is because you have bred from three generations
of pigeons that have not been raced. If the very same studs brought
their 60-80 "Van Championees" over and raced them then after two seasons
they would have about ten left and be lucky at that. But with them they
would breed more good pigeons from those remaining 10 than they would
from the 60-80 originals. So the lesson is buy your stock from pigeons
that are closely related to the performers, most good studs only buy
"Super Performers" and these are the ones that you want. If every fancier
was more like that then the quality of each pannier would be much greater
and if we could get them to be liberated in feds or combines of say
6000 plus birds then only truly good pigeons would be left. But that's
another issue isn't it.
Q.
Do you get the same enjoyment from racing pigeons in the modern day
as you did when you first started?
A.
In a word no but to go into it a little deeper we will explain why.
When you first start in the sport you are looked upon as just another
member but as sure as eggs are eggs the more you win the more you become
victimised and over the last few seasons we feel that the sport has
gone from racing more and more. It hurts to think that only 5 or 6 seasons
ago we could race against 4000 to 5000 birds each week, we could compete
in about 8 open races on land also but now the competition has dropped
to around 1000birds per week. All the opens except two have closed their
radius and the latest saga with the North West Grand National has left
a bitter taste in our mouth's. so taking all these things into account
it is not as good as it used to be. But we must say that in our club
things could not be better because our fellow club members are brilliant
competitors and there is great camaraderie in our club that we feel
is truly unique.
Q.
Do you have any aims or targets at the start of a season, i.e. do you
set targets for arcing achievements?
A.
In all honesty we never set any targets because we feel that if you
do you are undermining your competition and you should never do that.
We never take anything for granted in pigeon racing because pigeons
do have a habit of making you look silly at times. But we do aim to
achieve better results than in the previous season without specific
targets, we simply do our best to get the team fit, healthy and contented
and we try to win every race each week. we Know that we will never do
this but if we thought we had no chance of winning in the first prize
then we would not send. So if we do have any targets it's just to compete
at our highest level every race.
Q.
Why do you race from two different lofts and have two different teams
under two different names?
A.
The reason we have two lofts on the go is simple with one loft being
used mainly for the land programme and the other which is 600yds away
is used for the water races mainly because of the 600yd difference.
We race in the two lofts in different names i.e. the main sprint loft
is known as Curtiss, Wall & Lunt and the distance loft is known as Wall,
Lunt & Green. The distance loft is not yet two years old and we are
steadily building for it's future. Some of our competitors appear to
find the performances of our distance loft lacking to that of the more
established loft. But as any distance fancier will tell you it takes
time to build a team of pigeons to compete at the longer races and at
the present moment we are only racing yearlings here. But already we
have won 2 x 1st N.W.Grand Nationals one being from Vire in May 2000.
So give time the loft will become just as competitive as our sprint
loft and we will silence the critics who have never won a Classic race
as big as the N.W.National between them all. LJP.
This
has been a most interesting series of article and I hope that you have
picked up some good point from it. If you have not then I am not sure
where you are going or in fact there may be a few constructive questions
that you would like answering, if so why not drop me a line.
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