Mrs J. Hartley & Son of Middlesborough
talking to Les.J.Parkinson

Broken Wing Cock Top Stock Cock

10,000 Cock 5 x 1st's

The Blackpool show is the ideal place for meeting fanciers and finding out who is winning where and how they do it because a few drinks make all the difference to the tongue. One such conversation was with Mark Hartly from the Up North Combine partnership of Mr & Mrs J. Hartley & Son who have won more than their share as you will see during this questions and answers session. I shall be doing more reports in this format because they appear to be what the readers want and are a change from a limited loft report that we very often see in the papers. There is also the added bonus of the better the questions the less work I have to put in and I can assure you that is a big time saver. Then there is the fact that the internet is also a big help because the questions can go backwards and forwards with more info being added all the time. Let's get back to the conversation that we had at Blackpool and the ensuing conversations that led to this article being compiled. If you read this article and think that there are any questions missing then by all means send them along and I will add them to my questionnaire for future articles.

Q.1 You have quoted your position on being easterly or westerly do you set any stall by the position and if so why?
A.1 First of all I think position is very important, especially in easterly or westerly positions. Depending on what type of wind you get, whether it be easterly or westerly, west you get them on a east wind, east you get them on a west wind, and all depending on the line of flight, where your pigeons are flying. We fly in the middle and we have no advantage what's so ever. If you look at the federation averages over the last five years, there is only our loft from our part of Middlesbrough that has been consistent. Last year again we were top in the federation and there was only us in the top ten of the federation from our part of Middlesbrough.

Princess 2 x 1st, dam of Liam

Devil Woman 4 x 1st, 3 x 2nd

Dormo Sire of Cusko 3 x 1st

Julie 3 x 1st, 7 x 3rd

Q.2 Give the readers the basic results that you have achieved as a partnership?
A.2 We have had some fantastic times with pigeons, and some fantastic results with pigeons. We have topped the federation many times; we have won all averages we have competed for. We have won the Mighty Up North Combine from Maidstone Young Bird National, 14,903 birds.

Q.3 Amongst those results what are the real highlights?
A.3 The real highlights would have to be, topping the Mighty Up North Combine From Maidstone Young Bird National 14,903 birds with Liam, also being top flyer in the federation the year before, the year during, and the year after topping the Combine. So it came when we deserved it, and it didn't come out of the blue. Topping the federation, being top flyer in a new club, they are all fantastic highlights; every club win is a highlight in pigeon racing.

Q.4 What organisations do you race with?
A.4 We race with the Mighty Up North Combine, we fly with the Teeside Federation with approximately 500 plus members, it's the biggest federation in the Up North Combine. Its covers a very big area of Teeside, and as I stated before in question one we are not in any advantageous position in the federation, the pigeons have got to come straight at us.

Q.5 Do you ever think about competing for averages?
A.5 We work on a theory like Manchester United, at the end of the season there is only one champion. Averages are very important in our loft, I know to a lot of people they aren't. A lot of people set pigeons up for individual races but we believe that at the end of the year the top man, the one with the most points in the averages has been the best flyer over the year. We consider averages very important and as I said earlier, like Manchester United we work on the theory of, we compete for averages twelve months of the year not just when racing. Ask any football, cricket, rugby, or any sports team if they compete for averages. To be champion is very important to us.

Q.6 How do you race your pigeons and how many?
A.6 Old birds first, we race 28 Cock birds, and we race 25 Hen birds, we race them on a Widow Hood Cock bird system. We exercise the pigeons twice a day, at the beginning of the season they get trained for a full week twice a day ten miles only. We build them up from day one we don't regard the feed as breakdown, the breakdown is the actual racing event the pigeon is broke down when it returns from the race, and we build up from them coming back. The Hen birds are on the same theory but we fly them on poles and V perches, we give the cocks the hens and bowls for five minutes on a Friday night and the exact same feed system, where we depend a lot on rest, we believe rest is more important than exercise. If the pigeons are mentally tired and physically tired they cant think better then other peoples pigeons, therefore they cant race better than other peoples pigeons their rest is very important. We race about fifty young birds we have twenty on Dark and down, and we have thirty on the normal system. After they have been raking around the loft, we start them a week before racing training twice a day, only ten miles and then we carry on training for about the first four weeks of racing. Then we just exercise them around the loft and fly them on the exact same system as the widow cocks and the widowed hens, because that is the team that they are going to be in, in the following year.

Q.7 What are your lofts made of and how big are they?
A.7 Our loft is made of wood it is a Petron loft, thirty-six foot long. The twenty-five hens race into a ten-foot by six-foot section. We have a section of eight cocks what race into a six by six section, a section of twenty cocks which race into a twelve by six section. The fifty young birds race into a section which is twelve by ten, we have a corridor in front of the cock birds but not in front of the hens or the youngsters. We regard the ambience as very important. Rest is very important.

Q.8 Do you attach any importance to having a tiled roof on a loft, if so are there any benefits?
A.8 The only benefits are good pigeons and good management. Your loft must be right for the job, if you stand in your loft on a sunny day, and stand in your loft on a rainy day and see if you are comfortable, if you aren't comfortable your birds will not be comfortable. Remember that once a racing season start's that loft is only there to rest the pigeons, when they are out they work, when they are in they rest. It is very important that your pigeons can rest in there, and as I said, you have to go in there yourself and think about whether or not you could rest in there. As for the tiled roof I know a lot of good people who have tiled roofs, and I know a lot of good people who don't have tiled roofs, so I don't think there are any major benefits on having a tiled roof.

Q.9 How many stock birds do you keep and do you breed off your race team, also how many pigeons do you think that you need to breed off any individual stock pair each year to see if they are quality producers?
A.9 We have a number of stock pigeons, but because we only have fifty youngsters we can only breed off so many pigeons, we have a lot of pigeons we breed off one year and we will not breed off them the next year. Even though they have bred good pigeons, the reason being is we don't sell any pigeons and we only race a team of fifty. We single rear all our youngsters. We think this is beneficial because of the fact that the pigeon is in the nest all on its own, when there are two pigeons in the nest if one of them is ill or bad or one has watery droppings. The other pigeon will suffer, when it's in the nest on its own the pigeon can rest on its own, its easier for the parents who are going to be racing at a later date. It is also good the following year when they go into widow hood because they are going to be in a box on their own. Also we do breed off all our good racing pigeons, I think this is very important because our good racing pigeons are going to be your future stock pigeons. Good stock birds breed a high percentage of good youngsters maybe 75%

Q.10 When do you pair your pigeons?
A.10 We pair our pigeons around about December/January. So when the eggs chip off eighteen to twenty days later, it's a full moon. The reason why we do this is because we like the full moon to be out when the eggs chip off, so that the parents can find it easier to feed the small youngsters in the nest. Whether or not this works we don't know but we have always done it, also it is the right time of the year for us.

The Show Hen Bred 5 x 1st in one Year

Stephanie Top Stock Hen

Nanna Hartley 3 x 1st

Liam 1st U.N.C. Maidstone 14,903 birds

Q.11 Do you move the hens with the young birds?
A.11 No, we race our hens as we hope to race our cocks, we like to leave the youngster in the nest with the cock bird, then we will move the young birds once we see them pecking. We don't like our young birds getting any setback what's so ever in their life, we don't like to move them early on the theory that if they can't find the corn they can't find the water and they can't find their way home. I try to help them as much as I can to get as many advantages as I can.

Q.12 What criteria do you set down for the pigeons you winter with you thoughts on the following seasons racing and breeding?
A.12 We go on performance and we only keep pigeons that have the best racing performances and the best breeding performances, we will also go on a half brothers half sisters so we can get a good family of pigeons, where a lot of our pigeons are all related. Sometimes you might have a pigeon breeding winners one year, but the following year they might not breed off it because we need something off another pair and we will keep that pigeon and put him to one side until we need him the following year.

Q.13 Do you have any grills fitted to the floor or in the boxes, are there any advantages to using them?
A.13 We have no grills fitted at all on the floor or any of the boxes, we work on a clean floor and clean box system. We clean our lofts twice a day every day. We enjoy cleaning the lofts and we think it is better for the pigeons. I wouldn't like to be sat in my front room at home with grills on with all pigeon droppings underneath the floor in my front room; I would rather have a clean floor. This only our opinion I know good flyers with grills fitted.

Q.14 What do you think about the vaccination programme for the pigeons and do you think it affects the pigeon's long term? A.14 I don't think it will do the pigeons any good whatsoever long-term. On the vaccination programme pigeon pox is like chicken pox in people. I think that there should be a system where you can have one jab and then you can have another jab every two or three years later, as you have got a lot of pigeons getting jabbed every single year. I don't know if there are any signs of proof on it but I certainly don't think that it will be doing the pigeons any good I know that humans don't have to be jabbed every year.

Q.15 Do you attach any importance to the grits and minerals or can the pigeons get what they want when they are out of the loft?
A.15 Yes we attach a lot of importance to grits and minerals especially early on in the week. We take our grits out on a Thursday. We provide the pigeons with fresh grit and minerals twice a day every day, from Saturday to Wednesday, and then we take them out Thursday and Friday and then we just concentrate on the pigeons eating corn, which we regard as fuel. We think that early on in the week when the pigeons are on a smaller ration when they are getting built up on a depurative mix and we certainly wouldn't let them peck around outside the lofts, towards the end of the week when the pigeons aren't as hungry. We find they will not peck around the loft, we believe that this is very important, especially for promoting the down feathers off the pigeon,

Q.16 Do you use any floor dressing or do you clean the pigeons daily?
A.16 We clean our pigeons out twice a day, every day, and if we do use a floor dressing because if its damp or there is damp in the air because of sea fret. We will use Harkers loft treatment because it kills bacteria, coccidiosis eggs, worm eggs, we have used this and had successful performances with it, and it smells nice also. We use Ossie loft in our youngsters and in the nest boxes when we are breeding

Q.17 Do you like to have plenty of room for the pigeons?
A.17 Yes we believe that the pigeons should not be over crowded, We believe that when the pigeons become overcrowded. What will happen is that the pigeons will become stressed, when they become stressed they become mentally tired which can in effect make the pigeon physically tired. When the pigeon is mentally tired it can't think quicker than everyone's pigeons, and when he is physically tired he can't race better than anyone's pigeons.

Q.18 How do you feed the cocks and what do you feed them on?
A.18 We regard the breakdown, when people say breakdown food. The breakdown is the actual race it's a muscle breakdown, and when the pigeons come back we are building them up. We feed the pigeons on the theory of how hard the last race was. We don't believe you can feed a pigeon to fly a north wind or a south wind, we don't believe we can feed a pigeon to fly two hundred miles or a hundred miles. We believe that we can bring it into condition, and on a Friday and Saturday the pigeon has to come into top condition so you have got to go back to your previous race, if it has had a hard race you will bring them up earlier. If it has had a easier race you will bring it up later. We don't like our cocks leaving food some people do, we regard food as fuel and if they don't eat on a Friday they will be to hungry to race on a Saturday.

Q.19 Do you measure the amount that you give to each pigeon, or are they fed according to the individual pigeon?
A.19 Yes we do we work on an ounce and a quarter a day, and on a Thursday and Friday as much as they want to eat. We will leave it in front of them for round about fifteen minutes then take it of them. On a Friday we will leave it in with them for an hour, and we will also give them a little bit of conditioning seed on a Friday. We like them to eat as much as possible on a Friday as they are not eating Friday night and Saturday morning.

Q.20 Do you consider there to be any advantage having a racing partnership?
A.20 Obviously I think that there is a lot of advantage having a racing partnership. When one goes training one can trap them. When one has commitments the other one can be there. I also believe that each member of the partnership should have his own jobs, one man has his jobs, and the other man has his jobs, and we don't pass the buck on. We each have our own duties. For example it is like a building site, the brick layers lay the bricks, the electricians do the electrical work, and the plumbers do the pipe work, that is what we believe is a partnership. I think one man can do the job well but more hands make light work, and the partnership must be solid and trustworthy. Just a small example is when you race birds and cant drive or don't have a lot of money, a partner can also help with costs and transport.

Q.21 Are there any points that you disagree on, and if so how do you compromise a situation where there is a different viewpoint?
A.21 What you have to do is, you have to go into all meetings with an open mind. I believe that there are a lot of people, who go into the meetings with their mind shut, and they vote on things because they are advantageous to themselves, or they vote on things because their friends vote on things. What you have got to do is you have got to sit down and look at the sport, and realise what is best for the sport, not what is best for yourself and what is best for your friend, or even what is even best for your club. It has got to be what is best for your Federation, because if your Federation is strong I'm a great believer that alternatively your club will be strong, and alternatively your membership will be strong. If your federation becomes weak it will have a knock on effect, all the way down to your club and all the way down to the members. And that is what is happening in pigeon racing at the moment.

There are far to many people who have haven't got a open mind, when they go into things and at the end of the day they don't take into account what the most important thing is. The most important thing is that it is done on a vote where everybody is entitled to there opinion. Also another point that I would like to make is that the organisation should be sending people on refresher courses, and sending people on business courses, educating people all the time. Because one of our main problems are, and I think every fancier in the country will agree with this that pigeon racing has stood still for years. I was in a N.E.H.U Office this week and it was like going into a museum. No discredit to anybody, its everyone's fault, my fault, and everyone's fault.

What we should do is get together and look after our sport, it is so important that we do this, because we are loosing members so rapidly, the prizes are going down. Everything is going backwards, and it's our sport. And what we have got to do is, the people at the top, if you are at the top of a company you should be on refresher courses all the time, on any course you could get on, would be important.

Q.22 Do each of you have an area within the partnership where responsibilities take control regarding a decision?
A.22 Yes we do. That is another thing that is very important because we believe that it stops arguments, over you haven't done that, I thought you were doing it. If you know your jobs and I know my jobs, I know when my jobs are done and you know when your jobs are done. If your job is done then I'm not worrying about your job, I'm only worrying about my jobs. And we believe that's Important also.

Q.23 To term a phrase are you a professional team of pigeon fanciers, and do your circumstances make a big difference? A.23 We are not a team of professional pigeon fanciers, we have other commitments, but we do try to be as professional as we possible can, and when I say professional, professionalism we believe comes down to making sure your drinkers are cleaned once a day. Making sure your pigeons are fed twice a day, everything has got to be done in a professional manner, you don't do things lackadaisical. That is the only thing about professionalism. What you do make sure is that it is done right.

Q.24 Whenever I have visited loft fanciers always look at the pigeon's eye. Do you consider that the eye has any importance in (a) the breeding (b) distance races (c) sprint races (d) The pigeon's health Or do you steer clear or the subject and if so why?
A.24 I honestly work on the opinion that I look at a pigeon and I regard the eye as a stone in a ring, would I wear that eye in a stone on ring. Yes I would like it, but I certainly don't believe in 2 o'clock, 3 o'clock, 4 o'clock, 5o'clock, even though all the eye sign men do. I have a lot of friends who are eye sign men, they all come to my house and look at my pigeons, they all say my eyes are fantastic. And I have noticed when you do go to a lot of top pigeon lofts the eyes are nice eyes, but I don't believe in being able to see anything. I believe you can tell health I don't know about anything else, so I can't believe in it because I don't know about it. L.J.P. I have some good photos on the breeders and winners and I must say that the eyes are of a very high quality, a quality that is reflected in the results that these pigeons have achieved. I was going to include them in this article but it will be quite lengthy as it is. However because the eyes are of such a high quality I am going to put together a separate article so that their quality cannot be missed.

Q.25 Do you use any preventative medication?
A.25 Yes we do use, a guy from Middlesbrough, who checks our droppings once a fortnight. I look in the microscope, myself along with him and we work together. And if there is anything that is starting to show, what we will do is we will give them maybe a two or three day treatment when they come back from a race, or in-between when we don't send to the channel we will treat our pigeons then. If you are treating to cure during the racing season you are a little bit late, and if you are getting your droppings checked you have normally got a good idea on what is happening. So yes we do use preventative medicine.

Q.26 How many weeks do you think a pigeon can maintain its form on a widow hood system, for both the cocks and hens? A.26 I think that it all depends on your self. I'm a great believer if your pigeons are all on fire and all of a sudden something happens in your life, it will have a knock on affect into the life of your pigeon's. Your pigeons will suffer when you suffer and when you stop smiling your pigeons will stop smiling. I'm a great believer in Feng Shui.

Q.27 Does this include channel races or are the specified number of weeks for sprint races, and do you think that a pigeon can be prepared at fortnightly intervals for the channel races?
A.27 We don't send them to the channel a lot, and that is a question that I don't have enough knowledge on, with us not sending them to the channel. What we do is we try to keep our pigeons in the best condition that we possible can all year round.

Q.28 Do you think a pigeon has the capabilities or racing both short and long distance races? Also what distance can a pigeon actually still "race" as opposed to homing from a race point?
A.28 This is another question, we don't race in long distance races. Not because we don't think that our pigeons aren't capable of it, its just that we enjoy sprint racing a lot more, and we like to keep the pigeons like a pan of water bubbling if you can imagine it like that. I believe that if the pigeons are bred for it and the pigeons are fed right, and managed right I believe that pigeons can race up to seven hundred miles.

Q.29 What proportion of your pigeons get better on subsequent trips to the long distance races, and what do you call distance?
A.29 Same again on distance we tend to think that distance is over three hundred, four hundred, five hundred miles, and also depending on the weather. It's a question that we are not 100% on.

Q.30 Which is the more difficult, establishing a team of sprinters or long distance pigeons and why?
A.30. We believe a team of sprint pigeons are a lot harder work, you have to be working in there all the time. You have to keep them on the boil you have to keep them bubbling, you have to keep them smiling, you have to work really hard with sprint pigeons, its short and sharp short and sharp all the time. With long distance pigeons I tend to think the pigeons are left a lot and they tend to chuck along. I don't really know about distance pigeons because it's not something we really went into 100%

Q.31 Sprinter or distance, there is no difference; it is all in the feeding?
A.31 Yes I think that a high percentage of it is in the feeding, especially with sprint racing. In this day and age now where a lot of people say to me, pigeons are leaving the maize, or my pigeons are leaving the darri, or my pigeons are leaving the maple peas. The reason that they are doing this is these companies Versa Laga, Schumacher and Bosmolen are providing your pigeons with a balanced diet for your pigeons. The pigeons will only eat what they want to eat and the balance is all knocked out, therefore its very important the feeding, especially on sprint racing. I also think that there are two types of pigeons, there are fast pigeons and there are slow pigeons, and there is the odd occasion when an odd pigeon will plod along and do 5,6, or 7, hundred miles. And there are a lot of pigeons that are different but I honestly think that a pair of pigeons can breed one that will be a long distance pigeon, and one that could be a short distance pigeon, I do believe that. I don't think my brothers and me are only good at running short distances.

Q.32 What families of pigeons do you keep?
A.32 Like I say, to lot of people when a pigeon wins they all ask me what breed it is, I say it is a racing pigeon, that's what breed it is. But my family of pigeons itself are Soontjen Pigeons and Janssen Pigeons. I do believe that there are a lot of good pigeons in all breeds of pigeons. Everyone in this day and age have got good pigeons its bringing the best out of them which is the hard bit. The reason why I keep this family of pigeons is because they are the type of pigeon that I like, the type of pigeon what will hold in your hand, the colour the blues the checkers they are the type of pigeon I like. That is why I keep that type of pigeon and they are successful for me, if they weren't successful for me they would go. I am fortunate; I have got pigeons that win in the show pen, and win on the road.

Q.33 How do you go about bringing in a new family and what do you look for?
A.33 First I look for the performances. I've brought in pigeons from all over, all good pigeons, and all top lofts of pigeons. I think liking a pigeon is very important you have got to like it, and you have got to have confidence in your pigeons, because it brings confidence in yourself. There is nothing worse than having pigeons that you haven't got confidence in, because its not going to bring confidence in your self. What I'm looking for is top flyers that are doing well at club level, at federation level, pigeons that are coming as a team. Also do I like the pigeons, again, that is another thing about it, but I think performance is the most important thing is what I am looking for when I bring in a family of pigeons

Q.34 Early in the article we discussed the wind direction, do you consider that good pigeons will win in any position?.
A.34 Yes I do. I think I other people have an advantage, but I do think good pigeons will win in any position. What you have got to remember is that if the guy is in the east or on a west wind, if his pigeons aren't well then you have got more of an advantage over him. Sometimes when you get beat you have got to give credit to the other people, and sometimes when you win they have got to give credit to you. It's hard to win races at federation level, and Combine level, it really is hard to win all forms of races especially if someone else in your club or your federation is really out there trying to win. I do consider it to be an advantage yes, but I also consider that good pigeons win on any position. When I took the Combine the next pigeon to me was nine and a half minutes after me. We topped the Combine by one minute with the Combine being so big and the wind being south easterly, Gateshead should have topped the Combine they were second it was in their advantage, but fortunately it was our day that day.

Q.35 Some fanciers go out and purchase good quality winning pigeons but never appear to make the grade, why do you consider that this happens?
A.35 It's down to management a lot of the times, and sometimes you have to be honest with your self. I know a lot of people who have paid a fortune for pigeons and they have went and killed them, and done what they have done. You could get some guy who is winning his club, I know some flyers that are winning consistently in the club and good luck to these people, they deserve all the success, they are the best people in the club. But what they will do is they will go and buy off pigeons that are winning club averages, and expect these pigeons to win federation averages. There is no substitute for good quality pigeons and that is the biggest thing people must start to understand. Manchester United could go and get 10 lads from off the street and give them all the supplements in the world, train them as much as they want to train them, but there is no substitute for top quality players. It's the same in your pigeon loft, you have got a team of pigeons and you need the top players. The art of being a top pigeon manager is picking the top players.

Q.36 Do you give any special treatments when the pigeons return from a race as a precaution against anything that they may have picked up in the basket? A.36 Like I answered earlier, we treat when necessary. We get our droppings checked while racing, once a fortnight, and we treat as a precaution against anything we see cocci count or canker Worm whatever. Q.37 Which of the two sexes do you consider is the most important when it comes to breeding?
A.37 We consider both sexes to be important. If you have got a good cock bird and a bad hen bird, you are not going to get 100% good pigeons; you are not going to get 100% good pigeons when it's a good cock bird and a good hen bird. What is really important is that you put best to best and hopefully you will breed a high percentage of good pigeon's. There is no substitute for quality pigeon's. You cannot afford to put any weak link in the chain.

Q.38 Some fanciers like big hens for breeding, does the size of the hen make any difference to the quality of youngsters that she breeds, in you're past experience?
A.38 We have some big hens, some small hens, t we have hens of all different sizes. I am a great believer in this is. Do you think chequers can race faster than blue bars? Or do you think red pigeons can race faster than white pigeons? We believe that good pigeons come in all different sizes, just like athletes do.

Q.39 Is there anything that you have not won in the sport that you would like to achieve?
A.39 I've won the Up North Combine gold medal, and that means so much to me it's absolutely fantastic. I would have liked to race an inland national for the Up North Combine from somewhere like Peterborough, a 140 mile sprint race. The Combine will be carrying around about 70 thousand pigeon's at Peterborough. It would be fantastic for the sport, the publicity would be brilliant, and I really do think it would be fantastic.

Q.40 Who do you consider to be the best fanciers in the country and for what reasons?
A.40 A guy, who I admire, is a guy from Northern Ireland called Dave Mawhinney. I got friendly with Dave a lot of years ago, and he has helped me immensely with the pigeon's. He taught me the theory that common sense and quality pigeon's are the two most important things. I have a very high regard for Dave Mawhinney. I also regard everybody as a good flyer, whether they get bad results or good results they are all pigeon men, and that is something that has got to be remembered because it is important.

Q.41 What do you think can be done to take the sport forward?
A.41 I think that all the Up North Combine should have all the management teams sent on courses. Get them educated more on the business side; we should have a P.R Man (Public Relations). We should write in the local papers, we should liberate on school sites so that the children can see it. The schools could do with the money and they are free on a Saturday. Our Up North Combine's headquarters at Sappers Corner is absolutely huge; we should have offices in there. We should be leasing the offices off. We should import all of the corn for the Up North Combine, instead of merchants importing it. And we should sell it to corn merchants. We should have P.R people for television rights. And like I said the Up North Combine has our first national at Folkestone where we carry up to thirty thousand pigeons. If we had a combine race from say Peterborough or even Mansfield even though it's only a short race, the amount of interest that it would generate from television coverage would be fantastic for the sport. If you have a liberation of seventy or eighty thousand pigeons going over your head, there would be a hell of a lot of people out there staring at the sky on a Saturday afternoon. We should also have our own pigeon vet.

Q.42 Are there any special treatments that you give your bird once the season has finished. What do you recommend the readers do with the birds?
A.42 As soon as the season has finished, I advise one hundred percent to get your droppings checked. Make sure your pigeons are in top health. If a pigeon is ill its moult isn't going to be good put them on a moulting mix. I'm a great believer in moulting mix for moulting, racing mix for racing, and breeding mix for breeding, but moulting mix for moulting I regard as very, very important. I think that the balance is fantastic; I don't do all these Witch Doctor mixes of corn.

Q.43 When it comes to breeding do you line-breed or use first cross, or just pair winner to winners?
A.43 I do all. I do everything, I do line-breed, I do first cross, and I do winners to winners. I do best to best. If I have a two hundred mile winner and another two hundred mile winner, I would rather pair them together than pair together a two hundred mile winner an a one hundred mile winner. I like to get as many advantageous things on my side as possible. If I pair two, two hundred mile winners together. I'm a great believer that the percentage is going to be high of two hundred mile winners that I breed, but they are not all going to be two hundred mile winners though.

Q.44 Do you breed off the top widowhood cocks after the racing has finished and do you breed late bred youngsters and what do you think of those later bred youngsters?
A.44 We have bred some late bred youngsters off our pigeons and we haven't bred late youngsters off our pigeon's. But we certainly let them pair up at the end of the year, and we take eggs of them. As for the late breeds, I think a lot of the late breed. Some people say they are daft. I don't think that they are daft I just think that they get neglected. A lot of pigeon fanciers tend to relax in the winter and the pigeons are not getting the same treatment as the youngsters would normally get. So the start in life for the late bred is not always as good as the start in life that your youngsters get.

Q.45 If your race team went off form during the season what action would you take to restore their condition?
A.45 First of all what I would do is get their droppings checked. The second thing I would do is I would lock them in and rest them. And the third thing I would do is, I would check my corn to see if they have been getting over fed or under fed. I would check that there are no cats hanging around the loft, checking to make sure that there is nothing making the pigeons uneasy. The pigeon's are resting when they are inside. And the pigeons are healthy. Going back to getting the pigeon's smiling again, and getting the pigeon's confident in themselves that is what I would do.
Q.46 Is a favourable loft location the single biggest factor in sprint racing?
A.46 Yes, it is the biggest favourable factor in sprint racing. Especially when our federation will be liberated with Shotten and Trimdon. And if you get a map and draw a line on the line of flight obviously if you are on that line of flight, your pigeons are gong to be in a more advantageous position. Unfortunately we have never been in an advantageous position. But I would certainly like to have been in one to see our performances get even better a lot of the time we are five minutes clearing our area.

Q.47 Do you use darkness system for the young birds, if so for how long and do you think it affects them later in life?
A.47 We use the Darkness system for twenty young birds, the reason being is because that is all we can get on it. That is all our lofts are designed for. I don't think it effects them later in life as long as you get them through the moult, and again it's going down to put them on pigeon moulting seeds, and also moulting and mix during the winter. I know a lot of people who say my darkness pigeon's have not moulted. I say, did you have them on moulting corn and did you give them plenty of tea, and things like that, and they say no. And I think that that is their problem. You have got to put them on moulting mix and you have got to help them as much as you possibly can. I don't think that you can race young birds without being on the darkness system, at a high standard Federation level or Combine level. When you are topping federation three year on the trot, from the young bird National two hundred and thirty six miles. And it's never topped taken twice before let alone three times. But we have also won the Inland and young bird combined totalling the averages for six years on the trot, so obviously the pigeon's are coming out the following year, and the year after. And there are still competing well at Federation level.

Q.48 Are there any feeding methods for the young birds i.e. do you break hem down, do you keep them hungry for control purposes, do you give them a trapping seed mix?
A.48 Getting back onto the breaking the pigeons down, Is the breaking down is regarded as the race? The breaking down is the body/muscle breakdown. We build them up from day one. Getting smaller seeds in, getting bigger seeds in, going for more quality as well as quantity. When the quantity goes higher the quality goes higher. We do give them trapping seed especially when they're on darting down. After the feed we give them a little bit of red band conditioning seed, we think that this helps them, and it has been successful for us

Q.49 What percentage do you consider it takes to win with racing pigeons for Management and pigeons and why?
A.49 We think pigeons are the most important things because you must have quality pigeons. You can have the best management in the world but if you have got poor pigeons, your pigeons are not going to come for you. But on the same token you can have the best pigeons in the world, but if you are not looking after them they are not going to come for you. But I would say good pigeons are around about eighty percent of your success. It's good management that's in your own hands. And I would advise everybody to go out there and make sure that they get good pigeons. But on the same token if your pigeons aren't coming, ask yourself questions before you ask your pigeons questions.

Q.50 What is the furthest distance that you would train your old or young birds?
A.50 I will only train my old birds up to ten or twelve miles. I don't think that you should train them to get them fit or to get weight of them. The way that I get weight of them is to put them on a diet. I don't believe in building muscle underneath fat. I also train them on line of flight. I cannot think of any other reason why train your pigeons further down, unless you are sending them six or seven hundred miles. This I do not know a lot about because it's something I have never got into But line of flight, eight to ten miles short and sharp.

Q.51 If random drug tests were carried out on your pigeon's, would it reveal any substances, illegal or otherwise?
A.51 It certainly would not. And I have offered it to Federation level for the last three years running, and I have also offered to pay for it myself. I still hold that open now, anybody can come and drug test my pigeon's. And I will pay for them to be drug tested, they do not have to worry about the costs, I will pay.

Q.52 How do you consider that the British sport is going compared to the continentals and do they have any ideas that you think would benefit the sport in the UK?
A.52 I go to Malta every year, and Malta is only a very small island. And I find that Malta is leading the way in front of Britain, in ideas and in quality of transportation for the birds. It's all computerised over there, here we are still writing by hand. The likes of the Up North Combine has a huge turn over tax free, and it has a huge embership of people, I do not know the exact number but I would imagine it would be touching up to 5000. Like I said earlier, this sport is standing still, and if you are standing still you are going backwards in this day and age. I think that if you go over to Belgium, you have the world's pigeon centre; you have all these places, where you can get set up. If you cannot promote something that is tax-free it is telling you that things are wrong. If you were a football club and you were going to be relegated, the only way you could stop being relegated is to change it, and at the moment pigeon racing in the UK is getting relegated, and the problem is that we are not doing anything about it. People are scared of change they are frightened to change. But you have got to change; you have got to move forward, it is so important. To get a national race of over a hundred thousand birds liberated and to get some television coverage, it could be absolutely huge and with the likes of the Combine it wouldn't be too difficult to organise. Something like that, to get one hundred thousand birds liberated from one of our shorter race points. It would be fantastic for the sport in general. Just the amount of people that would go and watch the liberation would be huge, let alone winning the race. Also the amount of publicity it would receive and television coverage, it would be absolutely fantastic, but I honestly don't think that the people in office are up for it, of no fault of their own, but I just don't think that these people are up for it.

Q.53 Do you attach any real importance to the pigeons wing i.e. back wing, end four flights and do not look at the wing to see if they have cast before a race. Any other comments on the wing?
A.53 When I topped the Up North Combine, the next day when I went into the loft the pigeon had cast. I wanted to keep the two cast flights, as a personal memory, and as I went in and picked it up, she cast her two flights in my hand. I like my pigeons casting just before the National or just after the National. I'm a great believer that it is a great sign that they are coming into good condition. I like them to be casting their first flights; I don't like them to be casting way up on the end four or anything like that. As for the wings genera I have stayed early. There is a type of pigeon that I would like, an apple bodied pigeon, which is a v shape from the shoulders down to a single flight tail. But like I said earlier good pigeons are like good men they come in all different shapes and sizes.

Q.54 Do you use any form of heating system in any of your lofts, do you think it would be advantages for the birds?
A.54 In the corridor in my loft I have an electric radiator, the reason why I have this electric radiator is that people have came around and they have all said, Mark has got heating in his loft, Mark has got this in his loft. I actually know at least ten people that have left my loft, and have went and put heating in their loft. I have told them but they all think that I am telling lies. The reason the heating is in the loft is because some nights during winter after I have finished work, I will come home at the end of the day and I will sit in the corridor of my loft. I will eat my tea on my knee, and I will let the pigeons play around me, this is so I can keep that bond with my pigeons. The radiator is there to keep me warm, its not there for any other reason.

Q.55 Do the pigeons need any special treatment on their return from the race to help them relax?
A.55 I think your loft has got to have the right ambience, you have got to be in the right mood. The pigeons are locked in all day Sunday. Because as I said earlier I am a great believer in rest, it is a lot more important than exercise. The pigeons will not exercise if they are tired, and recovery is very, very important. What we normally do is when the pigeons come home, they will receive their corn, they get something like cress, the next day they will have pigeon tea and also some garlic and honey in their water. Then the pigeons are rested up, if it has been a hard race they might even stay in the loft two and a half or three days. I know a lot of good flyers that bathe their pigeons on a Sunday. We always use hot water when we bathe our pigeons because it is like you getting into a cold bath or a hot bath, I would rather get into a hot bath than a cold one. We use bath salts, not because we want them to smell nice, but we think that if we use bath salts they will soften the water with it being warm, and we feel that we have an advantage over a guy who just bathes his pigeons in cold water. If you get a feather and splash it about in cold water, and get another feather and splash it about in warm water with bath salts in, the bath salts will make the water softer and will therefore soak into the feather more, cleaning it more. It is like washing your clothes in the washing machine with cold water and no soap powder the results are poor. But if you wash them with hot water and soap powder you will get a better wash altogether.

Q.56 Has anything unusual or strange happened to you in pigeon racing?
A.56 Yes. In 1995 my friend Adrian Brown was starting to get involved with pigeons, and he bought a young slate cock pigeon from a charity sale off Mahoney Nixon, and profits 2nd UNC PROUINS and 5th UNC BEAVAIS. This bird had around 7 x 1st club medals. So t wasn't a daft pigeon. He asked me to race the bird as he had no loft, I raced it and at the end of the year he broke the bird off to his own loft about 1 mile away. The bird never came back to me. But I raced all the young bird programme 9 races up to 236 miles. When he had his first training toss the following year the pigeon never returned to him or me. The same day we were standing in the garden of another friend of mine Colin Dorman, 1 mile away from my house and 1 mile away from Adrian's house, the slate cock landed in the garden, whilst we were talking about loosing the bird. The bird had never been to this garden before in its life.

UNUSUAL.

The most unusual thing though was in 1999. We topped the Combine from Maidstone National 14'903 birds with a slate cock, Liam 99TEE16167 named after my son. The pigeon changed sex from a cock to a hen, and we paired her up as a yearling, she started laying four and five eggs at a time instead of the usual two, making us think her hormones must have been all out of balance. I know these things sound unusual but I bet we all have a story we can tell. I regard myself as a good pigeon man, and I don't tell to many lies, but this is the truth. I have since read about sex change birds in a number of pigeon books, which I was not aware of at all, FIT TO WIN chapter 11. A.4. Sex reversal. My son is hopping mad about having a hen bird named after him, and Liam is most definitely a healthy hen bird laying two eggs as usual.

The questions and answers have gone well and Mark has given some very good answers that will leave plenty of food for thought. But then after he though it was all over I asked him to think about the article and was their anything else that he may have missed. Or maybe even some of the comments made that may be seen in a different light after a nights sleep. I don't usually give fanciers a second chance to alter once they have been given the article the all clear but because of the content I did ask the question on this occasion.

A. Afterthought. I hope that I haven't upset anyone, or said anything that I shouldn't have said. But I have said everything that I think, and sometimes thing that you think are not always right. But if people don't come up with ideas, and bounce ideas off each other, there might be one thing in this article that might help someone. The reason that I have done this article is not to upset anyone at all, but to help, and if I have helped just one person then it is a plus. I believe your system changes depending on how the pigeons respond each day.

Thank you very much to Les for giving me the opportunity to write this article. I know a lot of people who do things differently to me and do really well Everybody is different we are not all like robots. I wish everybody the best of luck in the future. I hope that the sport does move forward and as I have said before I would be willing to organise it, a massive UK race, or a massive Up North Combine race of over one hundred thousand pigeons, with TV coverage, and anything else that we can get with it. And if that comes off, I would do it all free of charge too. So thank you very much and good luck in the future. BYE.