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BRIAN DENNEY

of York

talking to Les Parkinson

 

Brian with Mrs Bill Harris at a NFC Presentation

 

When you think about long distance fanciers one name that you cannot leave out is Brian Denney the highly successful racing loft from Strensall, York. Brian is one of the Northern fanciers who has mastered the long distance races with ease and finds that is where he can gain the most satisfaction from the sport. I first met Brian at the Bournemouth Show when we were in the company of Mr & Mrs Shepherd, Mr & Mrs Hanby, Mr & Mrs Sharman and Mr & Mrs Denney. Then as time went by I would notice the name more and more, that is generally the case, you meet someone of this calibre and then see their performances appear more and more on the results. I see the Q & A series of a way of extracting more information for the readers who have a preference to a specific type of racing and in this case the distance events. You may or may not pick up a few points from this type of article and if you don't then read it again to see what you have missed.

Q. When and how did you get started in the sport?
A. My first introduction to racing pigeons was about 1946 when I was 11yrs old, two men had lofts in the next village and I used to ride my bike over there to watch them time in on race days. Soon afterwards I made a small loft and kept a few of my own, I wasn't in a club but I still trained them on my bike. At that time I also used to play cricket for my village team, which meant we could be playing away, upto twenty miles from home. I remember taking pigeons with me and sending the scores back to dad so he knew how we were doing. I went in the army in 1952 so pigeons took a back seat for the next 9 years. During my time in the army I did 3 years 'Jungle Bashing' in Malaya, some very enjoyable times and some not so enjoyable. Later I was posted to Germany and here I did have contact with some very good German fanciers and when I was able I was at their lofts. I came back to the UK in 1961 and by 1962 I had a loft up and some pigeons flying out at Strensall, which is a village 6 miles North of York. I joined a York club and won the first race I entered. Things did not work out with this club as I won too many races so I was sectioned out on my own. I was then able to join another Club but my membership was reviewed each year, so I made sure I wasn't the highest prize winner so that I was OK for the following year. This went on for several years until Brian Stansfield (The British Homing World Editor's Father) came into the club and he soon got the ruling changed so that I became a full member. I enjoyed a lot of good years with that particular club until we formed my present club in our own village in 1077. I have been the Secretary for most of the past 25 years, so after a very trying start to my racing career, I've enjoyed a lot of success and happy times. All this has been possible because I married a very understanding girl in 1958 and we have spent 43 years together. Although my wife is not in the pigeon partnership, she is well able and willing to help me in anyway. As well as being Secretary and Treasurer of Strensall Club, I also run clock stations for the Midland NFC and the Northern Classic. Our family consists of two lovely daughters, Susan and Lynn, Two son in laws, Mark and Tim and two smashing grandchildren, Matthew and Ameila. At present it looks as if there won't be a fancier to follow me in our family, there are so many other things for the younger ones to do now. Matthew is very keen on cricket and Amelia likes dancing and drama, so I hope they both do well in whatever they do.

Q. Give the readers the basic results that you have achieved?
A. Over the years, I've won at all standards of competition and at all distances from 75-742 miles.

Q. Amongst those results what are the real highlights?
A. In the early day's I was twice winner of first open 'Yorkshire Continental Club' from Nantes 470 miles. Later I joined the NFC, winning first section K from Pau 738 miles, plus a lot of good Sec and Open position since. I've also won First Open 'Northern Classic' from Saintes 573 miles on the day, 14 hours on the wing.

Q. What organisations do you race with?
A. I race with Strensall PRS, as my local club. Northern Classic, Midland NFC and the National Flying Club, plus the NorthEast 700 mile club.

Q. Do you ever think about competing for averages?
A. I never think about averages. I just try to do well in every race and if there is a cup or prize for the best average, then I'll take it but I would never send to any race just to win averages.

Q. How do you race your pigeons and how many?
A. I race both cocks and hens on widowhood. I have two sections with 16 boxes in each section. Most years I have 20-24 cocks and hens to race. After they have reared their youngsters, the hens are put into a section next to the cocks and they are treated much the same as a young bird team. They are exercised at lunchtime each day, with all the doors closed. When they come into form they will fly for hours, until I open the door for them to fly in. They are fed straight away so they don't start looking for the cocks. They go back into the same section all week, the only time they go into the cock's section is on a Friday night and when they return from the races. On race marking nights they are with their mates for 5-15 minutes, just long enough to get settled down and on return from the race they stay for the rest of the day and some times overnight, depending on what time they return. I send both the cocks and hens to the same races, they don't seem to mind if their mate is not in the box when they return, they are happy to mix together and this can create a bit of jealousy for the early races. All the inland races are used as training for the channel races. I do try to win the big one's. By the way, if I have some good hens I will pair them up and have them sitting for the Pau race, the cocks go to the Pau race on Widowhood, unless they are paired to a hen which is going.

Q. What are your lofts made of and how big are they?
A. My loft is self-built of wood, sloping form front to back. It is underdrawn with ply and very well ventilated at the roof and floor level and anywhere I can get extra air through the loft. My loft is L shaped and has a floor area of about 450 square feet.

Q. Do you attach any importance to having a tiled roof on a loft, if so are there any benefits?
A. I don't have tiles on my loft as it was built long before tiled lofts became popular. I've never given much thought to tiled lofts, as I've never wanted one myself. They do look nice but whether the pigeons fly better, I don't know. They never seem to have plenty of ventilation.

Q. How many stock birds do you keep and do you breed off your race team also how many pigeons do you think that you need to breed off any individual stock pair each year to see if they are quality producers?
A. I have 8 boxes in my stock section, some years they are full, sometimes their might only be 3 or 4 pairs. I have no set rules. All of my pigeons in the stock section are what I've raced or bred from the best racers. I don't put untried stock in there, I think you should aim to get 4 to 6 young birds off each pair to race, to give them a chance to produce something good. I always take young birds of my best racers, for years I never breed off anything but my racers. Stock pigeons were unheard of. I found that by racing every pigeon I had, I only had the ones left that had done the distance, so every young bird was bred off performance pigeons. I think this is the way to the making of a strain of good, honest pigeons.

Q. When do you pair your pigeons?
A. I pair up from mid February to 1st March, I might be a bit earlier if I have quite a lot of yearlings in my team. Sometimes yearlings need a bit longer to settle down to their mates and boxes so I like to have time on my side. I have found that a few weeks one way the another does not matter to the form or the moulting of their first flights providing you get the hen's away before they have been sitting longer than 5/7 days on their second nest.

Q. Do you move the hens with the young birds?
A. No, not as a rule. I like to get the hens away before they lay again, so I leave the cocks to finish rearing the young birds. They make a good job of it, as they aren't chasing after the hens. They are hopper fed so they have nothing to do but look after their young. They also become very keen on the youngsters.

Q. What criteria do you set down for the pigeons you winter with your thoughts on the following seasons racing and breeding?
A. Every pigeon must have flown well and show no signs of any weakness. If they are sick, they are culled. I don't keep any pigeon that goes into another loft. Pigeons should have one home and that's where they are racing too. I race my pigeons hard and to the distance every year and what I finish with are worth keeping for another year. I don't hold anything back, they all have to toe the line.

Q. Do you have any grills fitted in the floor or in the boxes, are there any advantages to using them?
A. I have no floor grills. I think if I was to start again I would build a loft 3 feet if the ground, on pillows and have floor grills with the droppings to fall through on a concrete base at ground level. I would have wire netting round the bottom to stop cats etc going under the loft, with removable sections to clear the droppings out from under the loft about once a week, with plenty of ventilation in the top of the loft. This I think would make for a super loft. I have 12 petron boxes in a section, they have grills and pull out trays. They are OK and only need cleaning out about once a week. Young birds are mostly in that section, so they are used mostly as perches, yes I like them.

Q. What do you think about the vaccination programme for the pigeons and do you think it affects the pigeons long term?
A. I don't agree with the vaccination at all. For me I think it should never have seen the light of day. If PARA had been left alone, like any virus it would have been and gone years ago. I think to much flapping is done about diseases in pigeons, leave well enough alone and let the pigeons build some resistance up, so that they can combat there own problems. I don't know whether it affects pigeons long term or not, what I do know is pigeons now have more aliments than they had before vaccination came about.

Q. Do you attach any importance to grits and minerals or can the pigeons get what they want they are out of the loft?
A. Yes, pigeons need grit and minerals on a regular basis. If you don't give them the birds soon make for the fields but as soon as pigeons are fielding you lose control of them. Their only yours when they are in the loft. They also pick up a lot of slugs etc when they are fielding and if they are feeding young birds in the nest the lot goes into them, which I'm sure would lead to a lot of worms etc in the youngsters. I feed grit most days, as for minerals, I feed Hormoform with the grain, when they are rearing. I also put some Hormoform in the nest boxes morning and night, increasing the amount as the young birds grow.

Q. Do you use any floor dressing or do you clean the pigeons out daily?
A. I now clean out everyday as I have more time. For years I used 'deep litter system', a layer of good wheat straw about six inches thick and then a layer of wood chips on the top. These soon mix in with the straw and droppings. It's good for anybody who is short of time and the pigeons do look well on it. You need a well ventilated loft as the dust tends to build up in time. You do get some straw and chipping's walking out of the loft on your shoes, but it's a good system.

Q. Do you like to have plenty of room for the pigeons?
A. Yes, my pigeons have loads of room. I would not have it any other way. Pigeons always look better with space, everything needs space. I have a big loft and few birds. If I had not room for a big loft I would have even less birds, that's why I never have a fixed number of stock or race birds. I always notice that if there are less pigeons in a section that they are a lot happier and look a lot better. If you think your pigeons are short of space and you can't have a bigger loft, open the loft up so they have more fresh air.

Q. How do you feed the cocks and what do you feed them on?
A. The racing cocks are fed pea's plus the best widowhood mix along with Hormoform in the hopper. The racing hen's are fed the same mix but unlike the cocks this is hand fed. As the longer races approach I add extra maize and peanut's also Red Band at night. .

Q. Do you measure the amount that you give to each pigeon, or are they fed according to the individual pigeon?
A. The cocks are hopper fed and I never measure or weigh and feed but I do have an idea how much they will eat before I feed again so I don't have corn all over the loft floor. I must stress that they are never without corn although I do feed the hens by hand they are never short of food. I don't like hungry pigeons, also pigeons that are hungry will not fly around home at exercise time.

Q. Whenever I have visited a loft fanciers always look at the pigeons eye. Do you consider that the eye has any importance in (a) the breeding, (b) distance races (c) sprint races. (d) the pigeons health. Or do you steer clear of the subject and if so why?
A. I think everybody looks at a birds eye. I do. I don't know whether it tells me a lot. I once was interested in eye-sign but that was a long time ago. I now just like to see a nice bright eye, which usually means that the pigeon is healthy. I know a lot of men that have studied eye-sign for years and they know how to pick out a good bird, myself, I just leave it alone. I don't use eye-sign at all. Now having said that, I think my family of pigeons would be classed as having good breeding and racing eye's by the experts because of the work that they do.

Q. Do you use any preventative medication?
A. My pigeons droppings are tested by 'Northern Hygiene' and I treat if I have to. Canker is different, I treat on a more regular basis, using different products as I would not want a break down the immune system where canker is concerned.

Q. How many weeks do you think a pigeon can maintain it's form on the widowhood system for both cocks and hens?
A. If they come on form gradually and build to a peak over 10-12 weeks, they seem to hold their form for the rest of the season. I think 6-8 weeks would cover the period where mine perform at their best.

Q. Does this include channel races or are the specified number of weeks for sprint races and do you think that a pigeon can be prepared at fortnightly intervals for the channel races?
A. I am referring to channel racing, Yes cocks and hens can be raced every 2 weeks from the channel, I would think that it is the best way to do, as it gives them time to recover and be back at their best. Any loft that is just racing, say at Fed level, will agree every 2 weeks is just right. For the programme I race I have to work out the races and distances for each organisation. I fly about 14 channel races from 350 miles to 738 miles, so sometimes it means some pigeons will be over the channel 3 weeks on the trot, while others could have 3 weeks in between channel races. This all depends on how they are and the distance the distance of their next race.

Q. Do you think a pigeon has the capabilities of racing both short and long distance races. Also what distance can a pigeon actually still "RACE" as opposed to homing from any race point?
A. Yes, a good pigeon can race both short and long and do well, it all depends on how the fancier goes about it. I think a lot of fanciers who don't send their best birds to the channel races, so denying them a chance to see how good they are. I think in my case, about 750 miles is their racing distance, which means Pau 738 miles to my loft suits my birds. I have been asked to join other distance clubs which would mean my birds flying close up to 900 mile. Up to now I am not interested as the might become homers in that type of racing. If I am luck and get too many Pau birds I may have a go.

Q. What proportion of you pigeons get better on subsequent trips to the long distance races and what do you call distance?
A. I think most pigeons get better with age and experience, up to 7 seven years. This is when I stop mine, after seven years as an old bird. Some will have flown the channel 20-25 times by then. There aren't many what do this and to put a percentage on it would be difficult. I call distance from 350-738 miles.

Q. Which is the more difficult, establishing a team of sprinter's or distance pigeons and why?
A. I've only ever been interested in distance pigeons, so I can only answer for distance, which is a long time. As the long distance pigeon has more to contend with, the sprinter would get 10 races in while mine are flying a 700 miler. LES. Do you think that they can do more than one 700ml race in a season, if so how far apart, if not why. Brian. Yes in the two 700ml races were easy, three or four weeks apart would be OK, I have never done this as I don't have two 700ml races in my programme. The nearest I have got to this is Pau 738mls then three weeks later Saintes 578mls clocking the same birds on the winning day in both races.

Q. Sprinter or distance, there is no difference, it is all in the feeding?
A. With the right type of pigeon they will both sprint and do the distances to 350 miles but further than that the feeding and rest come into play.

Q. Taking into account distance, which is more difficult racing to your area, is it a case of a 600ml race is a 600ml race regardless of competition or route?
A. Racing to any area is easy if all the pigeons are flying to one area, like Fed racing. The good pigeons bring home the not so good pigeons, but oh what a different story when they go to a race which is off their normal line and their with pigeons what are going to other areas. That's when the good ones show, so I would say. 500 mile in the Fed is far easier that 500 miles with the National Flying club, given that the races are flown on the same day.

Q. What families of pigeons do you keep?
A. My family of pigeons go by the name of "Bry-Dens" 700 mile family.

Q. How do you go about bringing in a new family and what do you look for?
A. The 'Bry-Dens' is my strain that I've formed over 40 years. What I've done over the years is to keep bringing young birds in as and when I think they might go with mine for distance and looks. I get all my pigeons from the 'Lovella', some have turned out to be very good, others not so good, but that's the chance you take. If I decide to go for some young birds I get 12, I like the one's with pedigrees so that if any turn out OK, I can see where they have come from. I always race every young bird through the programme as young birds and I don't breed into my own family until such time as I am sure that they are OK. I soon know if they will be any good as they go to 500 miles as yearlings. Every bird that comes into my family must fly 700 miles and be line bred to 700 miles.

Q. Early in the article we discussed the wind direction, do you consider that good pigeons will win in any position?
A. No, good pigeons will score in most winds, but won't win in most National Races. I know where the winner will be when I see the weather forecast the night before the race. So in some area's of the country there will be lots of very good pigeons racing back to their lofts, that won't win the race. This does not mean that they aren't as good as the winner, wind and drag mean so much in pigeon racing.

Q. Some fanciers go out and purchase good quality winning pigeons but never appear to make the grade, why do you consider that this happens?
A. Poor stockmanship is the short answer, but there are lots of things which come under this heading, including cat's and hawk's, which are two things that come to mind. These make a mess of keeping the pigeons happy at home. In some built up area's it's difficult to control these pests.

Q. Do you give any special treatments when the pigeons return from the race as a precaution against anything that they may have picked up in the basket?
A. No, I don't think that's needed. I've never gone down that road. I've never known mine to suffer from anything they have picked up while racing. I think a lot of nonsense is talked about treatments and diseases, maybe with less treatment the pigeons would become more healthy.

Q. Which of the two sexes do you consider is the most important when it comes to breeding?
A. I think they both must be in the best of condition at pairing time. The hens lay their eggs, so the hens turn out the quality of the egg, but the egg is no good unless fertilised by the cock in peak condition. To give an example I had a supper cock that filled every egg and bred a lot of quality young birds for 7 years. After this time he started having dead in shell, maybe just one, then as he got older both young birds couldn't get out. These were fully grown and developed young birds, but could not peck their way out of the shell. As this cock had bred quality young birds up to 8 years old and then the youngsters got weaker, I can only think that it's the cock that is most important for breeding.

Q. Some fanciers like big hens for breeding does the size of the hen make any difference to the quality of youngsters that she breeds in your past experience?
A. Most of my hens are of a size. This is because they all fly the distance and I've found that the one's that survive are all of a type which is medium size, so I would say it's all down to the type of racing you do, Sprinters seem to be much bigger.

Q. Is there anything that you have not won in the sport that you would like to achieve?
A. Yes, I want to win the Pau National Flying Club. It's the race that I try for each year. The nearest I've been is 41st open, but one can only hope.

Q. Who do you consider to be the best fanciers in the Country and for what reasons?
A. It is impossible to name the best fancier, how do you judge them, do you look for someone who does well at National level or a local man who is just as good a fancier but maybe doesn't race National. I could name several National men that do well flying to a good location, by that I mean on the line of flight with the drag making sure that the birds are over their lofts. But are they the best? I could on the other hand name some very good fanciers who fly small teams that are just as good, but don't have the luxury of the drag. A good example of this was brought to everyone's attention when the race points for the Midland NFC were changed and the first drop was changed to the East side of the country. We got a big change in the results, with a good local loft cleaning up in both races. If we stopped on that route would the best fanciers all be in Hull? See what I mean, impossible to name the best fancier.

Q. Are there any special treatments that you give your birds once the season ha finished what do you recommend the readers to do with the birds?
A. I treat for canker, as I always breed of my best racers, at the end of old bird racing and I treat all the birds again for canker at the end if young bird racing. That's all I think in necessary.

Q. When it comes to breeding do you line-breed or use a first cross or just pair winners to winners?
A. Line breed and Inbreed to the best bird I have. The crosses come when anything as done well that I've brought in. I like to bring hens into the family but if the best is a cock then I use him.

Q. Do you breed off the top widowhood cocks after the racing has finished, do you breed late bred youngsters and what do you think of those later bred youngsters?
A. Yes I do breed off the widowhood cocks. I think they are best put to stock as they are hard work if you want to race them, as they need training in the year after their birth. A friend of mine like late-breds because they are easy to lose and if you get one to stand up, it turns out to be a good one. I'm sure he's right, I would do it if I was short of flown young birds.

Q. If your race team went off form during the season what action would you take to restore their condition?
A. Lock them up for a week, have their droppings tested and treat them for canker or anything else if the tests show there is a problem.

Q. Do you use the darkness system for the young birds, if so for how long and do you think it affects them later in life?
A. No I don't darken my young birds. I had a look at it and thought No this is not for me. I like my young birds to have plenty of sunshine. Having said that I know that in today's young bird racing, the lofts that do darken do very well. I don't think that it is just the darkening that makes them successful. Their youngsters are early bred which means that they can be raced as yearlings would be. I've heard of 5 tosses a day, other's 40 miles every day. Young birds never flying round home once training starts and some get them down to 150 miles maybe training a team of anything up to 200 young birds. I have never used this system so I don't know what happens in later life. I know a lot of young birds which don't make the grade will be sold off at the end of the young bird season, some will breed some good young birds, who knows?

Q. Are there any feeding methods for the young birds i.e. do you break them down, do you keep them hungry for control purposes, do you give them a trapping seed mix?
A. My young birds are fed the same as the old birds. They are never hungry when racing, all the hard work is done when they are very young. I use open door for all my pigeons and they are trained to go into the loft by my voice. I walk them in at the same time talking to them, then they are fed. This is before they can fly and I find that by doing this every time they are out, it becomes a routine for them and as time goes by I can get them in by just saying "come on. Lets have you". I never keep young birds that don't conform to my wishes, they are culled and I never miss them. The young birds are fed peas, widowhood mix, plus peanuts and Hormoform and a bit of red band. I feed to their appetites, never rationed or measured amounts. I don't like hungry pigeons.

Q. What percentage do you consider it takes to win with racing pigeons for Management and pigeons and why?
A. Management is a must to win, maybe as high as 80%. I place it as high because good fanciers can win with average pigeons, where as the poorer fanciers struggle with the best birds. Good fanciers with good pigeons in the right position are unbeatable.

Q. What is the farthest distance that you would train your old birds or young birds?
A. Mine start at 20 miles maybe 6 at this distance then anything up to 50 miles. I'm not a big trainer of pigeons but young birds need to be well trained, of course the main thing with young birds is to get them running, then your job is made easy. I like it when my young birds carry on running after I start training, I know that they are right for the season.

Q. If random drugs tests were carried out on your pigeons, would it reveal any substance, illegal or otherwise?
A. No, I'm clean. LES. Do you think that they are used in the UK. Brian. I have no proof that drugs are used in the UK, they might be, I've never given it a thought really, if fanciers are using drugs on their pigeons they are playing with fire and deserve to get their fingers burnt.

Q. How do you consider that the British sport is going compared to the continentals and do they have any ideas that you think would benefit the sport in the UK?
A. I think the British sport is fast going down hill. Too many young bird one loft races. Too many gold ring races and the like. Take the one loft races, what do they do to improve the sport or the pigeon. The young bird is entered for a fee of £100 or £200, it has a few training races where any one of fifty or so bird arrive back to the loft in a bunch and depending which one goes in first gets a hotspot prize etc. Then comes the final race where a few hundred birds fly about 150 miles and the winner get £20,000 or so. The birds are then sold off and never raced again, this just seems a waste of a pigeon. Now at the same time the National Flying Club, in the UK are flying for peanuts. How the unions can support and run these races is beyond me. I understand that the aim of the union was to further long distance racing, now until we get back to long distance racing we will continue to go backwards. One idea I've thought would help put the UK pigeon in front of the continentals and get more fanciers sending to the National Pau race would be to have a National day, that would be the only race held on that date. With good prize money for each distance band, right up the country. Their pooling system might help once our fanciers understood how they work. If one loft races and gold ring races were run for the young bird race, then the yearling race (say 350 - 400 miles), then as two year olds they went to 500-600 mile points. The entrance fees could supply prize money for the three races, young bird, yearling and two year olds.

Q. Is pigeon racing as a hobby going beyond the average working man. Is it becoming too technical and complicated or can you keep everything simple and still win with the pigeons?
A. Yes, without a doubt and sprint racing is to blame. When you start to split a second up to get a winner is it worth the effort. Yes I do think one can keep it simple and still win. Better still, keep it simple and enjoy your hobby and if a winner comes enjoy that as well. Get back to long distance, where the true winners are and the true sportsmen fly, much better than worrying about a second or two.

Q. Do you think winning fanciers should move on from club racing once they have reached a certain level of consistency. Are club performances paramount for personal satisfaction or sales purposes?
A. This is again is where we have gone backwards. Instead of having big clubs we now have lots of small clubs, which means that the prizes don't go round the club as they do in big clubs. Again most of the club races are of short distances and each year they want them shorter still, no wonder people are leaving. The whole challenge has gone, to be replaced by poor sportsmen. Regarding limiting to two prizes per loft, better still if fanciers on their own will just time one or two birds in, this would help Club racing to be more enjoyable. It's a bit much when you see lofts clocking up to 15 birds for only 4 prizes.

Q. Do you attach any real importance to the pigeons wing i.e. back wing, end four flights and do you look at the wing to see if they have cast before a race. Any other comments on the wing?
A. No is the answer to the wing theory. I look at the wing to see if all is well for example there is no damage or large gaps, but as for the shape or length of the wing No. I leave all that to the pigeon, if they fly 500 miles plus in good time I take it the wing and the rest of the pigeons is OK.

Q. Do you use any form of heating system in any of your lofts. Do you think it would be advantages for the birds?
A. No I don't use any heating in the loft. I don't even have a light in the loft. I would not mind a heater to warn me up on the cold days, but the pigeons don't need any heat, only the heat from the sun.

Q. Do the pigeons need any special treatment on their return from the race to help them relax. Is any such treatment needed for the short or long distance races or the hard races compared to the easy races?
A. No special treatment is needed, as long as there is corn and water in the loft, good pigeons will soon recover from the race hard or easy. Mine have the hopper in front of them and they help themselves to what's in it.

Brian with Brian Tattersall, RPRA President, at an awards ceremony in Blackpool

 

Q. Irrespective of how your pigeons have flown, what are your views on the past season whether good or bad or the management of the sport in general?
A. Well what can one say about the past season 2001, what with foot and mouth and all the changing of race points and routes, what a year?. One thing came out of it and that was it brought a lot of unknown fanciers to the front in National racing. It also showed what pigeons can do, when switched about on different routes. It is not for the faint hearted but the pigeon takes it all in it's stride. If we don't give them a chance to show us what they can do then we will never learn anything of what they are capable of. The modern day fancier thinks they can only fly one way and are frightened to give it ago in case they lose them. It makes me sad when I see where we are today, a hundred years ago they were competing from great distances and to day we are sprint mad. Lets hope that we can turn it round before it is too late - think distance!.

Les. Thank you for your contribution Brian because there is some good information that I am sure will be of use to fanciers who like to take up the challenge of the National and longer races. All the best.