MICHAEL BINNS

talking to Les Parkinson

This is a fancier who we have known for many years and he is always good for a conversation on all aspects of the sport. There are not many fanciers around the country who have not come across Michael at some time or another whether through his position with Harkers or maybe on the many panels that he has covered over the years. I wrote an article on Michael about 8 years ago and it was republished in one of the weekly papers over winter. The article was still well received with Michael and myself having positive comments passed our way. This is a follow on that I am sure you will enjoy and maybe pick up a few hints that will help you in the coming season.

Michael Binns with his pigeons

Q. Please introduce yourself and tell us how you got started in the sport?
A. Michael Binns, I am now 56yrs of age and first got the pigeon bug in the late 50's. I was always interested in livestock and the first pigeon loft was an old garden shed with a wide assortment of pigeons. I used to visit the local lofts and it was not long before I wanted to race the pigeons. I joined the local club in 1961 and have raced ever since I must add that I did get a lot of help from the local fanciers. Success certainly wasn't instant as it was a long time coming and you appreciate it more when it finally arrives. Prior to me starting in the sport there were no previous family connections whatsoever. All that I have learnt is from listening and watching other fanciers, or the hard way through making mistakes and that is the best way. Most of my working life has revolved around pigeons and I am managing director of Harkers Ltd who I joined in 198. I race the pigeons on my own but my wife does help me out with the basics when I am away on business, I couldn't manage without her. Since I started with pigeons I have met a lot of people and made lot's of friends from all walks of life and to me this is one of the great things about our hobby.

Q. Amongst the results that you have achieved over the years what are the real highlights?
A. I was the first fancier to win the prestigious Northern Classic twice with both being outstanding individual performances. I have also won section K in the National FC. Twice 1st fed Nevers 544mls and not forgetting clocking all four entries on the day from Niort 553mls in the Northern Classic. I have been the premier prize winner at club level on many occasion's and winning 2nd club Kempsey 1964 beaten by the late L.A.Bamforth, my first prize and I still have it. (the prize not the pigeon)..

Q. What organisations do you race with?
A. Northallerton HS with the G.Y.A, the National FC MNFC and the Northern Classic. I haven't competed much at Classic and National level for several seasons due to all the running about that I was doing with pigeons and clocks. Many fanciers don't know they are born with all the National and Classic facilities on their doorsteps and still they do not compete. For example I sent to Guernsey with the NFC last September (92nd Open 338mls old hens) and I drove 250mls with pigeons and clocks! Sheffield to basket 150mls round trip, clocks twice to York 50mls round trip, it would have been upsetting if I hadn't done the second York trip!!

Q. Do you hold any official position and if so do you take an active part, if no what are your reasons?
A. I have always taken an interest in the running of the sport and I have held just about every position in various clubs over the years. I am not an official at the present moment but I do like to help with marking on Friday nights and the results on Saturdays. I have always enjoyed taking part with all aspects of the sport, marking and clock setting keeps you in touch with the everyday goings on in the club. Having a pint with the lads after is always a good way to relax. I am also patron of the British Barcelona Club, Harkers have been sponsors of the Palamos (previously Barcelona) since 1964. Harkers used to have their own loft in those days and actually won the Barcelona race.

Q. Do you ever think about competing for averages?
A. In my clubs we race on a points system which I think is much better for the club and it's members. The reason being that there have been many lofts destroyed over the years chasing averages. With a points system you can miss a race if you have to do for whatever reason and still be able to compete for the overall points trophy. If you miss a race with the averages that's it for the season, it is not always the good ones who win the averages. However I must point out that I have also won many averages over the years at all levels.

Q. How do you race your pigeons and how many?
A. I race on the natural system with 24prs and have around 45 y.b's, most of which are early bred but not put on the darkness system. I would like to try some youngsters on the darkness but not at the moment, it is just another job for my wife when I am not here, besides it isn't as if we were flying for big stakes with young birds in this area. The reason that I fly on the natural system is because it suits me. Pigeon racing is all about having a system that suits both the pigeons and the fancier. I would love to have a crack at widowhood and I believe my performances would improve but at the moment I am happy with my system and I thoroughly enjoy id and that's what it should be all about. Pigeons are there to enjoy and I get a lot of pleasure just spending time with them and watching them. You can learn an awful lot just watching pigeons, having pigeons isn't just about Saturdays race.

Q. What are your lofts made of and how big are they?
A. Both my racing and stock lofts are made of timber with the race loft measuring some 24ft x 8th while the stock loft is 10ft x 8ft with both having an aviary on the front. The racing loft is in two sections for old birds, Young bird section and a corn store with a small weaning section at the end.

Q. Do you attach any importance to having a tiled roof on a loft, if so are there any benefits?
A. I don't have a tiled roof on either loft so I can't really comment but like a lot of things in pigeons, at the moment they are fashionable, I don't think that there is any advantage in having one. It goes without saying that the ventilation has to be right and you can do this with an ordinary loft. I have had two racing lofts in 40yrs. Although new lofts are very nice and there are some very good designs about I compare changing lofts to changing houses, a nightmare. However if we were to move I would get a new loft and would look at tiled roofs.

Q. How many stock birds do you keep and do you breed off your race team also how many pigeons do you think that you need to breed off any individual stock pair each year to see if they are quality producers?
A. I like to have 12prs and at the present moment most have bred winners, some have bred many winners but at the moment I do not have what we call a "Golden Pair" like you hear about in many lofts, I am still hoping

Q. When do you pair your pigeons?
A. The stock birds are generally paired around the 15th December but I do like to leave the racers until the third week of February. I am very selective what I breed off and I do not breed off all the racers and I believe my system works because young bird losses have been minimal when others have suffered horrendous losses.

Q. Do you move the hens with the young birds?
A. No, the young birds are moved straight into their own loft.

Q. What criteria do you set down for the pigeons you winter with your thoughts on the following seasons racing and breeding?
A. I like to be selective and I don't like to winter pigeons that continually make mistakes or breed youngsters that are failures. These are culled out, unfortunately not everyone does this and instead of being culled they are sold. The only difference between bad pigeons now and 20yrs ago is that now they all have good pedigrees.

Q. Do you have any grills fitted in the floor or in the boxes, are there any advantages to using them?
A. I only have grills in the aviaries which have flagged floors and it is more comfortable for the youngsters, especially the early ones that are going out in February. The reason I put aviaries on is to protect the pigeons from hawk strikes. It is very upsetting when you have a kit of youngsters and on their first time out the hawk comes and they end up all over the place as many fanciers have experienced. Aviaries give them plenty of time to look around and they get confidence and of course plenty of fresh air which is the best thing that they can have.

Q. What do you think about the vaccination programme for the pigeons and do you think it affects the pigeons long term?
A. I don't like vaccinating my pigeons but I believe it has been the correct thing to do. I have been involved with the vaccine wince day one in 1983. When this all started I could never give a personal view because I was always accused of having a vested interest and the vaccine company's were making millions! How I wish! We are no longer in the vaccine market and no one would turn there back on a multi million pound market. Vaccination has been blamed for everything that has happened in pigeon racing since 1983. Remember all the clear eggs and the dead in shell stories, then it was wet droppings and now it is young bird sickness and young bird losses. What we have seen in the last 20yrs is a dramatic change in the sport in just about every aspect imaginable and it has not all been for the good. Fanciers talk about vaccination destroying the natural immunity, there are a lot easier ways of doing this. One being the constant use of antibiotics which a lot of fanciers use. My own view is that salmenella (Paratyphoid) is a bigger threat now to our pigeons than paramyxo.

Q. Do you attach any importance to grits and minerals or can the pigeons get what they want they are out of the loft?
A. My pigeons always have grit before them but over the years I have found that minerals just get wasted. When rearing Hormoform is always available and sometimes they get pick stones.

Q. Do you use any floor dressing or do you clean the pigeons out daily?
A. The stock birds are on oat straw with the race team getting a sprinkling of bird sand (dust free) on the floor, plus I always use loft treatment on perches and nesting area's. The lofts are cleaned daily. I do suffer with pigeon lung and I was advised to remove the droppings when fresh and not allow them to dry. I always wear a mask in the loft and would advise others to do the same.

Q. Do you like to have plenty of room for the pigeons?
A. I don't like overcrowding because it is bad for pigeons, it causes fighting which causes stress and all the problems that go with it. I like big nest boxes and plenty of perching area's for the hens when they are off the nest, they like to rest away from their boxes. Good ventilation is also a must, I also think that you can give them too much room as well, you need the correct balance. Also don't keep pigeons for the sake of filling up boxes, you are better off with a few empty boxes than them all being full with some pigeons that you should not be keeping in the first place.

Q. How do you feed the cocks and what do you feed them on?
A. All my race team are on the natural system and as a standard diet the get Bamfords Premier Gold with diet on basketing day and on the return from the races. I also use Hormoform as a supplement.

Q. Do you measure the amount that you give to each pigeon, or are they fed according to the individual pigeon?
A. I usually feed one and a quarter ounces per pigeon per day mixture, they get one third morning with the rest in the evening. This is in troughs on the floor, I go around each box in the evening with a small scoop of Hormoform during the racing season.

Q. Easterly or Westerly do you set any stall by the position and if so why?
A. It is far more important in the sprint races and a large radius for club racing is often unfair in these shorter races. I would never move just to get a better position.

Q. Do you consider there to be any advantage having a racing partnership?
A. I'm sure it is an advantage if you have the right partner otherwise it can be a disaster, my wife wishes that I could find a partner, then we could have a summer holiday.

Q. Are there any points that you disagree on and if so how do you compromise a situation where there is a different viewpoint?
A. What time Claire should get up and let the pigeons out when I am away on business!!! I like to have them out at 6am each day, the compromise is not to bother asking in the first place.

Q. Whenever I have visited a loft fanciers always look at the pigeons eye. Do you consider that the eye has any importance in (a) the breeding, (b) distance races (c) sprint races. (d) the pigeons health. Or do you steer clear of the subject and if so why?
A. All fanciers and that includes myself like to see a good eye, I have never been able to tell winners to breeders but I can tell if they are in good health and that is important. Some fanciers seem to have the knack when studying the eye and I would never dispute it. I have found over the years that pigeons that win eye sign shows generally win nothing else. I think what is between the eye's is far more important.

Q. Do you use any preventative medication?
A. I was brought up to treat for worms, cocci and canker before I pair up. I still, more or less stick to that but I do treat for canker when they are sitting. I always give the youngsters half a spartrix tablet for canker when they are weaned, I think this is a must. More recently I have treated the OB's when they have been sitting around 7/8 days.

Q. How many weeks do you think a pigeon can maintain it's form on the natural system for both cocks and hens?
A. I have only raced natural and when the loft is on form anything can come, I reckon three weeks is about as long as an individual will keep it's top form on my system but it's all about having the loft in form, on my system they will come into form more than once.

Q. Does this include channel races or are the specified number of weeks for sprint races and do you think that a pigeon can be prepared at fortnightly intervals for the channel races?
A. As far as channel races are concerned that depends on the distance, I prefer three weeks between.

Q. Do you think a pigeon has the capabilities of racing both short and long distance races. Also what distance can a pigeon actually still "RACE" as opposed to homing from any race point?
A. I have always believed and this is through my own experiences that it is all down to the way that you feed, race and train the pigeons that will determine the distance. I have known many good distance fanciers who have won the sprint races. I have always believed that the race is on the day and after that it can become a lottery. Especially when pigeons can make it on the day.

Q. What proportion of you pigeons get better on subsequent trips to the long distance races and what do you call distance?
A. To me the ideal distance for a distance race is 550mls and I have had quite a few pigeons that have put up excellent performances with flights of 14/15hrs and above. Not many will do it twice and those that do are like gold dust. I have nothing but admiration for those pigeons that keep performing year after year at the distance, pigeons like the INFC Hall of Fame and the British Barcelona Club Certificate of Merit.

Q. Which is the more difficult, establishing a team of sprinter's or distance pigeons and why?
A. Without doubt the distance pigeons, they have become harder to find in recent years and just when you think that you have a good team some clown comes along and liberates them in very bad weather conditions and you are back to square one. This I find inexcusable and it happens to often and those responsible just get away with it.

Q. Sprinter or distance, there is no difference, it is all in the feeding?
A. All my pigeons are fed the same and I win a lot of races up to 256mls, sound grain is the secret.

Q. Taking into account distance, which is more difficult racing to your area, is it a case of a 600ml race is a 600ml race regardless of competition or route?
A. All 600ml races are hard, it doesn't matter where it is from, I have never gone along with the theory that there are easy 600ml races, North, South, East or West at the end of the day 600mls is exactly that 600mls.

Q. What families of pigeons do you keep?
A. I have had the Krauth pigeons for 30yrs and I have put some good crosses into them. I have had the Wildermeerch pigeons almost 20yrs and I have also put some of the Fountainhead Kellens into them in 1996 and that was an immediate success. . I find all my pigeons race well inland (to 256mls) but the Krauth based pigeons are better at the distance, I topped the fed last year at 88mls with a YB oozing with 500ml winners. I have also tried the Janssen/Van Loons for inland races that have been successful. I have one pair that have bred 4 x 1sts plus 1st Fed in just two seasons and they would be better still if raced on the widowhood. . I am always on the lookout for good pigeons to introduce but I would never bring in a kit of young birds to try out in the hope that I would get a couple of good ones, I would hope to do that myself. Recently "Bolster Moor" (see photo) was bred by my very good friends John & Christopher Haigh. I let them have a sister to "Yorkies Brother" to pair with one of their top cocks and we both had good winners out of them. Ken Hanby bred me a youngster the same way bred as "Sapphire" who had won 1st section K 14th Open Saintes 540mls and the year after was 2nd section K 52nd Open National FC Pau app 720mls. He has bred winners with most hens including another 1st section K National Fc for Ken when paired to "Bolster Moor". In 1995 Arthur Beardsmore sent me a young bird direct from his famous "Joan's Boy". He was my bets young bird that year and could have won three on the trot but was beaten by a loft mate one week, he broke both his legs and is now breeding winners. At the moment he is paired to one off Brian Denny's celebrated "Bordeaux Cock". I purchased this hen at the Blackpool Charity sale and they had a winner in their first nest. In 1995 Tom Marshall loaned me 2 hens, I think Tom has some of the best hens that I have ever seen, they too have left their mark. Other's have been tried from other sources and eliminated, nobody likes to throw a spanner in the works.

Q. How do you go about bringing in a new family and what do you look for?
A. With all the commercial hype about pigeons in the modern day it is very difficult and I'm sure a lot of fanciers have ended up worse off. I look at fanciers who don't race huge numbers and are not commercially minded. I also have to like the type of pigeon that really should go without saying and also the area that they race into is very important.

Q. Do you think that fanciers change for the sake of changing or do you think a loft can breed a winning team out and lose track of the winners?
A. Yes without doubt, it's an old saying "Never change a winning system" but that does not appear to apply in pigeon racing. I try to keep to the same system but I am always looking for ways to improve.

Q. Early in the article we discussed the wind direction, do you consider that good pigeons will win in any position?
A. Good pigeons will but how many good pigeons are there really about. If I could choose a wind it would be North West every week no matter what the distance because you always get fair races. I hate South East winds when anything can happen and it usually does.

Q. Some fanciers go out and purchase good quality winning pigeons but never appear to make the grade, why do you consider that this happens?
A. I honestly think that you have it or you don't, some fanciers could take over a top-winning loft and in 3yrs will be bottom of the sheet. On the other hand a top fancier could take over unsuccessful loft and take it to the top. Over the years I have helped to race mark 1000's of pigeons and can never understand why some pigeons that look and feel well are always so far behind every week.

Q. Do you give any special treatments when the pigeons return from the race as a precaution against anything that they may have picked up in the basket?
A. I read a very good article not long ago by Clive Yates who stated that your pigeons are only as healthy as the worst fancier in the club once they are in the baskets. That is very true, it doesn't matter how well your own birds are looked after, once they go into those baskets it all changes. Canker seems to be more of a problem than it used to be and it's amazing how many fanciers treat their pigeons on a regular basis during the racing season. Young bird sickness is a problem in many lofts, mine included, for the last couple of seasons I have used cider vinigar three times each week and added garlic. What I do is get a 500ml bottle and crush a garlic bulb into it, I then use this at a rate of 10ml per litre. This has been successful in my loft but as soon as the pigeons go on the transporter it is a different story. I don't believe that it is a virus because you get an immediate response from an antibiotic. When the problem starts I have found that Mycrosan-T from Chevita to be a very good product with almost instant sign's of recovery.

Q. Which of the two sexes do you consider is the most important when it comes to breeding?
A. They always say that it takes two to tango, my own preference has always been the hens. Obviously you can get more youngsters from the cocks with the various systems but I would still go for the hens.

Q. Some fanciers like big hens for breeding does the size of the hen make any difference to the quality of youngsters that she breeds in your past experience?
A. I don't like any pigeon to be too big because I think they can be too big in the same way that they can be too small but there is no hard and fast rule, winners come from all shapes and sizes.

Q. Is there anything that you have not won in the sport that you would like to achieve?
A. I have been in the sport for over 40yrs and I have been successful but I have also had bad years, honestly I don't think that I have scratched the surface and I would love to win another big race. A well known fancier reported a pigeon of mine in 1970, he told me he was thinking of packing in as he had achieved everything, he was still clocking winners in 2001. When you read about the achievements of some lofts it makes you feel very humble, but I am still proud of my achievements with natural pigeons.

Q. Who do you consider to be the best fanciers in the Country and for what reasons?
A. A very difficult question because there are specialist fanciers about and how can you pick one from another when they achieve what they set their lofts out to do. One fancier I do admire is Brian Denny of York. His performances over the years in National competition have been excellent.

Q. What do you think can be done to take the sport forward?
A. The new general manager of the RPRA was a step in the right direction. It would be nice to see some positive press coverage instead of the pathetic press we seem to get which is usually making our sport into a joke.

Q. Are there any special treatments that you give your birds once the season ha finished what do you recommend the readers to do with the birds?
A. As soon as the season finishes you are preparing for the next one, feed the pigeons well during the moult and the winter and don't cut corners, it is false economy.

Q. When it comes to breeding do you line-breed or use a first cross or just pair winners to winners?
A. I have tried all ways with success but like everyone else more failures than success's.

Q. Do you breed off the top widowhood cocks after the racing has finished, do you breed late bred youngsters and what do you think of those later bred youngsters?
A. It isn't often that I bother with late breds but if I do you have to remember that they are late breds and therefore you have to treat them right and they can do you some good. I would much rather have a round of early youngsters than a round of late breds. You can obviously breed some late breds for stock if you wish and I have found some of these to be very successful. A lot of late breds are just thrown away because they are never given a proper chance.

Q. If your race team went off form during the season what action would you take to restore their condition?
A. All I do is shut them up in the loft for 3 to 4 days and put them on a light feed, this can do wonders. Too many fanciers give them extra work and they only make the situation worse. Rest can be marvellous for pigeons, a few years ago we had a commitment during May which meant we had to be away. I raced Saturday and went away Sunday am and filled the hoppers up, our next door neighbour changed the water daily, the pigeons did not go out until Wednesday and I won the next three races.

Q. Is a favourable loft location the single biggest factor in sprint racing?
A. It has to be an important factor but you still have to have the pigeons and know how to race them wherever you are.

Q. Do you use the darkness system for the young birds, if so for how long and do you think it affects them later in life?
A. No, I breed early youngsters but they are not on the dark. I have nothing against darkness youngsters but it's all about time. I cannot expect other people to control the daylight when I'm not at home, you have to draw a line between being dedicated and being a slave.

Q. Are there any feeding methods for the young birds i.e. do you break them down, do you keep them hungry for control purposes, do you give them a trapping seed mix?
A. I always believe in feed them well and work them hard, you can't do one without the other, they get a light feed in the morning and the main feed in the evening. Morning feed consists of 80% depurative, 20% Hormoform (after six weeks). Evening meal is Bamfords breed and wean which is what they are reared on.

Q. What percentage do you consider it takes to win with racing pigeons for Management and pigeons and why?
A. I was once told by a very successful fancier many years ago that it was equally divided between pigeon, fancier and luck and I haven't really been able to dispute that, you have to have a certain amount of luck on your side.

Q. What is the farthest distance that you would train your old birds or young birds?
A. I have trained all distances up to 100mls, even further but I don't think this is always an advantage, they now get 50mlsand very rarely go further. You can easily take the edge off them with too many long tosses. When a pigeon is fit you will not get it any fitter by long training tosses, this can do the opposite. Young birds get their first toss at 15mls and then increase up to 50mls. I always train mornings with the first tosses always being around 6.30am. I think that short tosses are a waste of time and I never train in the evenings, this is a recipe for disaster.

Q. If random drugs tests were carried out on your pigeons, would it reveal any substance, illegal or otherwise?
A. Not unless the Hormoform has been spiked.

Q. How do you consider that the British sport is going compared to the continentals and do they have any ideas that you think would benefit the sport in the UK?
A. I think the continentals have given us enough ideas, not all good ones!, it is true that the majority of continental fanciers seen to have a more professional approach but I suppose there will be plenty of bread and butter fanciers who do well we never hear of. They have certainly taught us a lot about feeding methods which I see as an important factor. Pigeons are certainly a lot faster now but are more prone to disease.

Q. Is pigeon racing as a hobby going beyond the average working man. Is it becoming too technical and complicated or can you keep everything simple and still win with the pigeons?
A. No not at all, it amazes me the great lengths that fanciers will go to complicate something that is basically common sense. The question should really be "Does the working man have the tome to race pigeons"???

Q. You are successful fanciers, there are far too many leaving the sport, to encourage fanciers to either join or stay in the sport what do you think about limiting prizes to two per race per loft. If not Why. If yes Why?
A. I don't think it is the answer to limit prizes, that is not the problem. To start to try and look at all the reasons would take up all these pages and we still wouldn't be able to solve it. I have learnt the hard way and have appreciated every prize that I have won. However fanciers who continually fill the clock every week will kill the goose that lays the golden egg. If you want to do this then join the Nationals. When I started I was given a lot of help and advice from older fanciers but it ended on Saturday afternoon. I never expected to be given prizes I hadn't actually won and I think the same now.

Q. Do you think winning fanciers should move on from club racing once they have reached a certain level of consistency. Are club performances paramount for personal satisfaction or sales purposes?
A. Without a doubt, the only fanciers who know the club winners are that particular clubs members plus a few surrounding fanciers. To win in open and National races should be everyone's goal and when you have succeeded you are starting to get there. I would like to see all channel races arranged by National and Specialist clubs.

Q. Do you attach any real importance to the pigeons wing i.e. back wing, end four flights and do you look at the wing to see if they have cast before a race. Any other comments on the wing?
A. I used to do and I never liked an O.B to have got to it's 4th flight until I topped the fed at Nevers 544mls with one. When I won the Northern Classic Picauville YB she had dropped her 8th flight.

Q. Do you use any form of heating system in any of your lofts. Do you think it would be advantages for the birds?
A. None at all, it's bad enough having central heating in the house, electric lights are quite enough and an extra pullover in winter.

Q. Do the pigeons need any special treatment on their return from the race to help them relax. Is any such treatment needed for the short or long distance races or the hard races compared to the easy races?
A. My pigeons are allowed to relax naturally after racing, Sunday is always a quiet day with a bath always available and then it's on with the show again on Monday.

Q. Irrespective of how your pigeons have flown, what are your views on the past season whether good or bad or the management of the sport in general?
A. The last season was difficult with the F & M but regardless of what some fanciers said I think we were lucky to race. Apart from that it was the same pattern, YB sickness, YB losses and fanciers leaving.

Q. Is there anything that you do not like about the sport, something that you feel needs changing for the good of the sport?
A. I feel that not enough effort is made to scrutinise performances, especially in all the sales we see now and purchases should be protected by so many false claims and iffy performances that get advertised. You get entire clearance sales who claim to have won everything but finding a winning pigeon listed is like finding a needle in a haystack. They have either bred countless winners or bred for stock and bound to breed countless winners.

Q. Do you compete in the National events, if not why not. Or are you happy to race in the club?
A. I am happy racing in my local club but you can't beat the buzz of the big races and that's really what it's all about. As I have said earlier I haven't competed a lot recently in the Classics and National races but I hope to be having a go soon. Club racing is the grass roots and this should not be forgotten.

Q. Do you have any further comments about anything that we may have missed?
A. No not really the questionnaire is well put together. My main complaint about our sport is that fanciers seem to have plenty of money to spend on lofts, pigeon's etc. But are happy to see them transported in vehicles that can only be described as pathetic and out of date. But try getting money to buy a new one. What we must remember is that our transporter's are often our shop window for everyone to see and it is important to both a good image and the pigeons to have maximum comfort en route to the race point. I sometimes cringe what I see as I travel around the country. One thing that really upsets me is when you hear about non fanciers who go to a great deal of trouble to find the owner of a pigeon that they have found are told to either kill it or dispose of it. To me this is what other sports call bringing the game into disrepute and the offenders should be suspended, we don't need them.

Les. Thanks to Michael for some good information and his forthcoming views that will no doubt help someone to achieve their goal.