BROWN
BROS & McKINNIRE
by
Les Parkinson
I
was talking to Sid Barkel about articles and suggested that he contact
some of his local winners for reports and this is the first to come this
way.
Q.
Please introduce yourself and tell us how you got started in the sport?
A. The present partnership consists of David Brown, Stephen Brown and
Ian McKinne. I started flying in Oddfellows HS around the 70's with D.
Fergusons. Then later in the 80's with M Kirtley. From 1990 I looked after
the pigeons by myself because Stephen had no time with work and family
commitments. At the beginning of 2001 my brother in law Ian had moved
into the area and agreed to look after the pigeons while I was at work
although Ian had never had pigeons before this proved to be a wise move
as Ian was a natural around the pigeons. Because he was unemployed and
spent most of his time round the pigeon a loft was made out for feed training,
times for letting out etc. Sputniks were fitted and different colour marking
Rings put on hens, cocks, YB and a purple dye put under the pigeons wings
to help Ian pick them out while flying. This system has worked very well
and we are all pleased with the progress.
Q.
Give the readers the basic results that you have achieved as a partnership?
A. We started flying as Brown Bros and Mc Kinnie at the beginning of the
season 2000. We finished the season with one first and a total of 20 points.
Season 2001 we flew 8 x 1st at club level 2 x 1st at fed level winning
old bird inland average in club and fed young bird average in club. Combined
average in club and fed also ford two bird averages in Sunderland P.R
fed. We have many wins prior but we shall stick with the up to date performances
achieved.
Q.
Amongst those results what are the real highlights?
A. Winning any race has to be a highlight but out of Melton Mowbrag .
We were 1st, 2nd, 3rd club 1. 2. 5th fed against 3.000 pigeons.
Q.
What organisations do you race with?
A. We fly in Oddfellows HS in the Sunderland premier fed and Up North
Combine.
Q.
Do you hold any official position and if so do you take an active part,
if no what are your reasons?
A. Ian is assistant treasurer. We also run the one bird club and like
all committed fanciers generally help out where possible.
Q.
Do you ever think about competing for averages, if not why?
A. We do compete for averages but not at the expense of sending unfit
pigeons, that can be a big mistake if you want to race a consistent pigeon
throughout the year.
Q.
How do you race your pigeons and how many?
A Season 2001 we flew 12 cocks and 12 hens on the roundabout system we
also race a few pairs of natural due to time the natural had only a couple
of races. We fly 20 YB's on the dark and 30 on the natural.
Q.
Are there any reasons why you have two teams of young birds on Darkness
and natural?
A. We have flown the young bird darkness system for two year with some
good results but you hear of many fanciers who have flown the dark many
years and have concern over their performances after the young bird stage.
This is why we prefer more natural young bird’s than dark, this
way we are able to be competitive in fed and Nationals with the dark young
birds and educate the naturals. We have topped the fed with yearlings
that were on the dark as youngsters but why take chances when a happy
medium can be achieved. We have green plastic rings on the natural young
birds and orange on the darkness team. They are together all day but after
the evening feed the dark youngsters are pushed or carried through to
their own half of the section. With a bit of patience within two weeks
all the dark young birds are sitting ready in their own section well before
it is time to close down. As for exercise we find the dark are not held
back by the naturals as we fly on an allotment with another 28 members
and up to 1,300 rings issued each year. So sometimes 500ybs may be flying
around they find plenty of other mature playmates to range with, while
the naturals exercise around the loft till they are ready. In 2002 we
have been invited to send one pigeon paid for to the Million Dollar Race
in South Africa Sun City plus two reserve’s. One of 12 lofts in
England invited which have been despatched and hope to justify their selection.
Q.
What are your lofts made of and how big are they?
A. The main racing lofts are made of plywood sheets and are 8ft wide including
a 2'6 corridor. The front of the loft is half shiplap half vented polycarbonate
sheets. Sections are 8ft times loft darkness, 12ft x 6ft natural young
bird. 12ft x 6ft w/h. 12ft x 6ft w/h hen’s loft, both these lofts
are identical with pens. We have a 10ft by 7ft cabin this year we have
built a 10ft by 10ft tiled roof loft with a centre partition (pens back
to back) this enables us to fly a few more pairs of roundabout. Also a
16ft by 8ft stock loft with aviary containing 12 pairs of stock.
Q.
Do you attach any importance to having a tiled roof on a loft, if so are
there any benefits?
A. Our lofts are well ventilated, this in my view is one of the most important
aspects of loft construction no matter what it is made of.
Q.
How many stock birds do you keep and do you breed off your race team also
how many pigeons do you think that you need to breed off any individual
stock pair each year to see if they are quality producers?
A. We like to breed at least 4 YB's off each pair of stock, I will not
condemn stock pigeons of good breeding until it has had 3 different partners,
YB's are also bred off the best racers.
Q.
When do you pair your pigeons and why then?
A. Pigeons are paired around Boxing day while we are on holiday giving
plenty of time to settle the pairs into their own boxes.
Q.
Do you move the hens with the young birds?
A. This is something we have not tried but if it helps in any way to control
the repairing and laying it cannot be dismissed.
Q.
What criteria do you set down for the pigeons you winter with your thoughts
on the following seasons racing and breeding?
A. During the close season if weather permits they are let out for a bath.
The darkness YB's are locked in after the last race until two weeks before
pairing, during this time they get the best corn with an oil seed mix
to prepare the pigeons for the coming season. There is no over crowding
so what was not performed or does not look like it is going to perform
in my judgement is disposed of.
Q.
Do you have any grills fitted in the floor or in boxes, are there advantages
to using them?
A. We have no grills fitted at all because we prefer beach sand in racing
lofts and wood chipping in stock lofts. We do like to clean the racers
out every day if possible with a sprinkling of course beach sand.
Q.
What do you think about the vaccination programme for the pigeons and
do you think its affects are long term?
A. Regardless of what we think vaccination has to be carried out. I don't
think it has any ill effects on the pigeons just our pockets.
Q.
Do you attach any importance to grits and minerals or can the pigeons
get what want when they are out of the lofts?
A. We use crushed oyster shell chicken grit for laying which is full of
calcium also mineral grit blocks are in the loft all the time when feeding
YB's our pigeons also have greens twice a week when feeding.
Q.
Do you like to have plenty of room for the pigeons?
A. Space is essential to help to create a healthy environment and to keep
them in top form over the season.
Q.
How do you feed the cocks and what do you feed them on, a branded mix
or do you buy separate corns and mix your own?
A. Hens and cocks are fed in gally pots in their pens. AM we feed a good
depurative widowhood mix. PM widowhood mix. The widowhood mix that we
use is whichever is available at the time.
Q. Do you measure the amount that you give to each pigeon, or are they
fed according to the individual pigeon?
A. As a base feed each pigeon receives a level Soupspoon of morning mix
and a heaped soupspoon full of widowhood mix. This may change with some
individual pigeons. Hens may get a morning mix AM and PM depending on
their condition for up to two days after race.
Q.
Easterly or Westerly do you set any stall by the position and if so why?
A. We appreciate any west in the wind being the most easterly club in
the federation. As a club flyer wind determination is not an issue as
all 28 members fly over the same gardens.
Q.
Do you consider there to be any advantage having a racing partnership?
A. With myself having to leave for work around 7am and not returning till
maybe 5:30pm most of the work is left to Ian as I have said we have a
rota and each partner knows his time and place. I will go round before
work then take over at 5:30pm for the last exercise and feed them, also
without Ian it would be difficult to fly the young bird darkness system
because they need a specific time at both ends of the day.
Q.
Are there any points that you disagree on and if so how do you compromise
a situation where there is a different viewpoint?
A. Although Ian has not had pigeons long his calmness patients and general
control over then pigeons is second to none. So if he has a different
viewpoint it would be dealt with over a cuppa in the cabin and changes
made if
necessary.
Q.
Do each of you have an area within the partnership where responsibilities
take control regarding a decision?
A. The only area which I do take control over is the mix and amount of
feed given on the evening feed. Everything else is by the rota which ahs
worked very well.
Q.
To term a phrase are you a professional team of pigeon fanciers and do
your circumstances make a big difference?
A. We enjoy not just racing but everything involved with our sport, our
cabin is usually full and any disputes are solved over a cup of tea and
winning or loosing is accepted with respect by ourselves and the other
members.
Q.
Whenever I have visited a loft fanciers always look at the pigeons eye.
Do you consider that the eye has any importance in (a) the breeding, (b)
distance races (c) sprint races. (d) the pigeons health. Or do you steer
clear of the subject and if so why?
A. I don’t take much notice of eye sign because of limited knowledge.
But I have been to moots on eye sign and found there very interesting
some of these fanciers have a great knowledge and understanding of the
eye sign theory’s and have proven them correct.
Q.
Do you use any preventative medication. If a pigeon goes ill do you try
to put it right or does the bird have to go?
A We treat for canker when the pigeons are sitting their first round of
egg. We have not treated for worms cocci or respiratory for the last 2
seasons. We do use garlic cloves in the water everyday also aloe vera
from the young birds hatching till the last young bird race and have never
had Y.B sickness. One thing we do think is very important is after the
first round of Y.B's have been put over any additional young birds be
it from our own loft or some one else's are put in pens in the cabin for
a week till they are able to cope with any indifferences in the main YB
loft.
Q.
How many weeks do you think a pigeon can maintain it's form on the widowhood
system for both cocks and hens?
A. We find our cocks find form about the third race and are still winning
at the end, I believe the hens are more difficult to control so their
form is very erratic. But if it was possible to get the feeding and exercise
right the hens would blow the cock away.
Q.
Does this include channel races or are the specified number of weeks for
sprint races and do you think that a pigeon can be prepared at fortnightly
intervals for the channel races?
A. We have not had the pigeon for the channel till this year but correctly
prepared I would expect at least 3 channel races from each candidate.
Q.
Do you treat pigeons differently with their preparation if they are to
go to the bigger races whether National, Classic, Specialist club or open?
A. For our National and Combine races candidates are chosen and their
race programme made out ultimately to bring each candidate into the best
possible condition as each race distance pigeon may differ.
Q.
Do you think a pigeon has the capabilities of racing both short and long
distance races. Also what distance can a pigeon actually still "RACE"
as opposed to homing from any race point?
A. We believe it is all down to preparation up to 480mls but there after
it takes a different kind of or pigeon as always there are the exceptions.
Q.
What proportion of you pigeons get better on subsequent trips to the long
distance races and what do you call distance?
A. In the past I have won Bourges around 560mls this has always been with
a first time pigeon to the race point and always over 2 years old.
Q.
Which is the more difficult, establishing a team of sprinter's or distance
pigeons and why?
A. I don't know about more difficult but channel pigeons take more time
and patients.
Q.
What happens when you are racing either widowhood or the roundabout when
you have a bad race and lose a few from one sex, how do you continue with
those pigeons who have lost their mate?
A. I believe the nest bowl plays a big part in the racing reward of cocks
and hens. This is why the day before we pair up the cocks get a dressed
nest bowl in the pen they have chosen during the close season. The following
morning the hens are put in with the bowls and cocks left outside the
pen. Later in the day they are put together. Usually this way be it cock
or hen back first from a race they are quite content to sit and wait knowing
a partner will be among soon. Our best racing cock this year had 3 different
hens.
Q.
Sprinter or distance, there is a difference, is it all in the feeding?
A. Not just in the feeding but also in the preparation i.e. Races previous,
Training, and rest in the correct proportions.
Q.
Taking into account distance, which is more difficult racing to your area,
is it a case of a 600ml race is a 600ml race regardless of competition
or route?
A. The longest race we fly is Bourges which is around 560mls but if we
had the time and pigeons we would consider any race distance regardless
of competition.
Q.
What families of pigeons do you keep?
A. The main pigeons are FVW from Messay, Taylor and Robinson of Great
Ayton, Hall Bros of Holywell ( Ayton Marshal based pigeons also Hindhaugh
and Donaldson ( Celtic club ).
Q.
How do you go about bringing in a new family and what do you look for?
A When needed I prefer late breds as close to the best as possible usually
from a local consistent loft but they must been seen and held. Size is
not of big importance as long as they rest well in the hand.
Q.
When you bring in that new family do you think that they need time to
acclimatise, if so how long?
A. Although the pigeons bought may be winners they are going into a different
environment and management which could be totally different to the loft
it came from every loft has its own tolerance of bacterium and level of
immunity which may not be accepted by the new members. I believe this
is one of the main causes for young bird sickness.
Q.
Do you think that fanciers change for the sake of changing or do you think
a loft can breed a winning team out and lose track of the winners?
A. There is always room for improvement in any team of pigeons it is a
good stockman who can produce winners year in year out without introducing
different lines at some time or another.
Q.
When looking for new pigeons do you look for a particular family, one
for specialist races or club races or just be name?
A. The pigeons we have are versatile, as such we expect them to perform
well from 60mls to around 420mls if prepared correctly. Any new pigeon
bought in would not have to upset this balance. Ultimately we wish to
compete in every race with reasonable success a all levels.
Q.
Early in the article we discussed the wind direction, do you consider
that good pigeons will win in any position?
A. There are many good pigeons racing in super form all can not win but
motivated correctly and a little luck your pigeon will go close regardless
of positions.
Q.
Do you give any special treatments when the pigeons return from the race
as a precaution against anything that they may have picked up in the basket?
A. They come back to garlic water on Saturday and a few drops of T.C.P
antiseptic in the drinker on Sunday. If it is obvious there is something
wrong they will be treated appropriately.
Q.
Some fanciers like big hens for breeding does the size of the hen make
any difference to the quality of youngsters that she breeds in your past
experience?
A. Size is not of importance as long as they produce sound quality youngster.
Q.
Is there anything that you have not won in pigeon racing that you would
like to win?
A. The ultimate achievement is to top the up north combine and enjoy the
sport.
Q.
Which of the two sexes do you consider is most important when it comes
to breeding?
A. We always seen to have good stock cocks but good hens are hard to come
by.
Q.
Do you race your pigeons every week or do you prefer to condition them
for a specific race?
A. If we think a pigeon is right it will go every week to the inland races
but we find that the hens are better for a weeks rest then gradually train
them up for the following week. Even two weeks is not a problem as long
as they are fed light till the week before the race, then fed and trained
tp to condition, usually with good results.
Q.
Who do you consider to be the best fanciers in the Country and for what
reasons?
A. There are many good fanciers unfortunately I have not met them they
may be outstanding flyers but are they good sports men. Of the fanciers
I have met in my area I rate Alan Hindhaligh as one of the best on three
accounts, racing, breeding and a gentleman of the sport.
Q.
Is there any specific condition that your pigeons perform best at, or
any particular time of the year?
A. As we fly cocks and hens on roundabout we find it may take three weeks
for the pigeon to start performing. When a pigeon, be it hen or cock,
scores in the first six of a club we usually get another three consecutive
good races from that pigeon till it peaks again. We have jumped yearlings
from 150mls topping the fed and because they are right when sent over
the channel they have gained good club positions.
Q.
In your view do you think that a loft needs different pigeons for different
distances?
A. We believe you should be able to win up to 400mls with any breed of
pigeons if prepared correctly, possibly after 400mls to fly at the highest
level another distance breed may have to be stocked.
Q.
Some fanciers go out and purchase good quality winning pigeons but never
appear to make the grade, why do you consider that this happens?
A. Many quality pigeons are available at reasonable prices but to achieve
the same success of feeding, training, medication, if any, may have to
be achieved to continue the same winning way. Also there are some fanciers
who will never make pigeon men, (pigeons as well as the management).
Q.
When it comes to breeding do you line-breed or use a first cross or just
pair winners to winners?
A. We tend to line breed through the main stock pigeons but a few first
crosses may be tried and winner to winner but only in race loft.
Q.
Do you breed off the top widowhood cocks after the racing has finished,
do you breed late bred youngsters and what do you think of those later
bred youngsters?
A. We always breed off the best racers at the end of the season these
are usually used for stock purposes, I have tried some for racing but
will find them hard work some not many make the grade but like anything
else there's always expectations.
Q.
If your race team went off form during the season what action would you
take to restore their condition?
A. One thing I would not do is panic and start blind treatment pigeons
are like ourselves we have downers be it due to ill health depression
stress etc. I have found in the past rest, peace and quite. The hession
is pulled dawn
in the corridor and the pigeons are locked up for three days on derpurative
with brewers yeast and garlic oil. Also a concentrated Aloe Vera water.
The pigeon will tell you when they are ready for work again.
Q.
What do you think can be done to take the sport forward?
A. I believe everything has to start at local level and then runs its
course. Local paper coverage to let the public understand the time enjoyment
and dedication needed to perform at the highest level after all the public
are potential new members.
Q.
Do you read many magazines/Articles, if so which type of article do you
find interesting and why?
A. I read all the pigeon papers, RP, Homing World and the ex Pigeon Sport
and find them very interesting, not only for results and individual right
ups. Also for some of the weekly around the loft type articles which show
so many completely different management systems for many top class consistent
flyer’s.
Q.
Are there any special treatments that you give your birds once the season
ha finished what do you recommend the readers to do with the birds?
A. No special treatment is given just rest , good corn and baths.
Q.
Is a favourable loft location the single biggest factor in sprint racing?
A. I believe wind direction to be more important but regardless every
man has the opportunity to win. His share of prizes where ever he flies
and in various wind directions.
Q.
Do you use the darkness system for the young birds, if so for how long
and do you think it affects them later in life?
A. We have only flew the young birds on the darkness system for two seasons
then only 20 young birds with 30 natural we have won the fed with yearlings
that were on the dark. One thing the darkness system does allow you to
do is to race your larger type young cocks up to the young bird National
when in the past the feather weight ratio of the natural moulting young
bird would cause problems.
Q.
Are there any feeding methods for the young birds i.e. do you break them
down, do you keep them hungry for control purposes, do you give them a
trapping seed mix?
A. Young birds are fed similar to the old birds on a no maize young bird
mix. A small amount of seed is used for trapping a happy medium between
feed and control has to be made but I don't think this can be measured
or weighed only through trial and error. Depending on amount of exercise,
training, type of corn mix, is there any additives such as pellets, homoform
ect.
Q.
What percentage do you consider it takes to win with racing pigeons for
Management and pigeons and why?
A. There are plenty of good pigeons to be had and not at absorbent prices
but the percentage of these reaching their true potential are very low.
How often do you hear of someone buying the best of so and so yet can
not do a thing with them. You can buy good pigeons but not management.
Q.
What is the farthest distance that you would train your old birds or young
birds?
A. We usually train up to 15mls private and a few 30mls local transporter.
Q.
If random drugs tests were carried out on your pigeons, would it reveal
any substance, illegal or otherwise?
A. None at all.
Q.
How do you consider that the British sport is going compared to the continentals
and do they have any ideas that you think would benefit the sport in the
UK?
A. I think we are becoming more influenced by the new super breeds and
methods from the continent, Some good some bad as long as they are fair
and available to all fanciers so be it. My worry is in time we will be
keeping
pigeons in larger quantities than excel at one cartain distance thus pushing
out the older strains which were capable of winning and winning well at
all distance.
Q.
Is pigeon racing as a hobby going beyond the average working man. Is it
becoming too technical and complicated or can you keep everything simple
and still win with the pigeons?
A. I believe in keeping it simple, quality not quantity. You don't have
to be outstanding flyers to enjoy our still wonderful sport.
Q.
You are successful fanciers, there are far too many leaving the sport,
to encourage fanciers to either join or stay in the sport what do you
think about limiting prizes to two per race per loft. If not Why. If yes
Why?
A. In out local club we have 1 bird races which is 1 bird per loft but
2 prizes also a similar 2 bird club run in the federation. Something on
these lines would help in limiting the amount of prizes by one loft.
Q.
Do you think winning fanciers should move on from club racing once they
have reached a certain level of consistency. Are club performances paramount
for personal satisfaction or sales purposes?
A. We would not want any member to move on from club level. This would
spoil the atmosphere and excitement of the racing as we all fly as club
members should be allowed to enjoy their hobby in there own way without
criticism or pressure.
Q.
Do you attach any real importance to the pigeons wing i.e back wing, end
four flights and do you look at the wing to see if they have cast before
a race. Any other comments on the wing?
A. We may check wings just in general if a pigeon shows signs of distress.
Q.
Do you use any form of heating system in any of your lofts. Do you think
it would be advantages for the birds?
A. We use no form of heating apart from hession curtain in the corridor
which maybe used during the breeding season if weather is cold.
Q.
Do the pigeons need any special treatment on their return from the race
to help them relax. Is any such treatment needed for the short or long
distance races or the hard races compared to the easy races?
A. We may bath each pigeon by hand in warm water after a difficult race
to help them rest. The first time we did this we had to put each cock
back in it parting as they could not lift being so sudden. Later that
afternoon they were sound asleep and bone dry we were 1st and 3rd fed
the next week.
Q.
Irrespective of how your pigeons have flown, what are your views on the
past season whether good or bad or the management of the sport in general?
A. Considering the fact that it was possible of not having any racing
last season due to foot and mouth. The UNC did an outstanding job.
Q.
With your pigeon work do you have a silent partner i.e. wife, partner
or friend, if so what part do they play?
A. There are only Ian and myself and our wives very often ask what on
earth do you do round there all day.
Q.
Is there anything that you do not like about the sport, something that
you feel needs changing for the good of the sport?
A. We all like to win but consider our sport without the so called no
hopers who fly every week and win one lucky race and see the enjoyment
they get out of this performance. Winning is not everything, enjoyment
is, if a man races hi/her pigeons they are entitled to win whoever they
may be.
Q.
Do you compete in the National events, if not why not. Or are you happy
to race in the club?
A. We fly all Club racer when possible also with the Sunderland premier
federation. Two old bird NAT. One young bird NAT and 5 channel races with
the UNC.
Q.
Do you have any further comments about anything that we may have missed
in any area of the sport?
A. We have made many good friends in our sport and wish them all the best
of luck for the coming season.
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